Transcript
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The host welcomes the audience, frames the discussion on disruption in higher education, and introduces the moderator and panelists. Each speaker is briefly highlighted for their background and perspective.
Good afternoon everyone.Welcome welcome to today's panel conversation on leading through disruption.Well, today I'm in an audience capacity.So I very much look forward to uh listening to the discussion along with my executive team but I wanted to take a moment to welcome all of you to this very very important discussion.A few year weeks ago, as you may recall in my state of state address, I talked about where Penn State stands now, the challenges facing higher education as a sector and ours in particular.And I we also talked about the bold decisions that we are making together.And all of this is in the service of adapting and pursuing excellence from a position of strength.And today my hope is that the conversation will give us an even broader perspective because while it's very true that every institution of higher education is navigating a rapidly changing landscape, we're not unique.
We're not the only sector and that's why I think the conversation will be valuable.We are after all an institution dedicated to learning and that means we have a responsibility.We have the opportunity and the responsibility to listen, learn and consider what we can take from the experiences of leaders from other fields.And I honestly cannot think of a better person to lead this conversation, to moderate this conversation than Jeff Celingo.Jeff is one of the most trusted voices in higher education.Some of you may remember him as the top editor of the Chronicle uh our Bible that we read, the Chronicle of Higher Education, or uh as the New York Times best-selling author of several books on higher education, ormaybe as the co-host of the Future U podcast.In whatever capacity, it's fair to say that Jeff is someone who spent his career studying the transformations that we are living through right now.
He is joined by three panelists who bring decades of perspective from outside our own walls.They are voices from higher education policy, enterprise technology and AI and healthcare.Each of them has navigated disruption in their own world and I'm hoping that they will share with us candidly what it took, what smart pivots require, how do you persevere, how do you show that grit.Nick Anderson uh is one of our panelists today.He spent many many years covering higher education for the Washington Post.Many of you might recall his reporting on admissions, on campus culture, public perceptions of higher education's value.Now he's in a new role and I get to see him in this role as the executive director of strategic communications at the American Council on Education.I too serve on that board.ACC represents more than 1,400 colleges, universities, and related associations.So Nick has seen the world as a reporter, but today he's here as an advocate helping us helping institutions of higher education meet their biggest challenges.
Next, you'll also hear from Joe Atkinson.He is a Penn Stater.He is a leader in the rapidly changing world of AI.Currently he's joining us from London.Thank you so much Joe because you see his role is as global chief AI officer for the PWC network of firms.Uh both the global changes as well as in AI.That means he is setting the AI strategy for 370,000 employees who are also in the professional services sector.He's a Smeil alumnist from the class of 92 and we were so proud to induct him and honor him as a 2026 alumni fellow.Joe has worked closely with our leadership team very unselfishly giving time to our leadership teams about AI and digital curriculum.I'm also very grateful that he's someone I uh consider a mentor and a confidant.And finally, we also are delighted to be joined by Linda Yakarino.
She is another Penn State alumni.She has led organizations through major change in media, in technology, now in healthcare.She is the CEO of EMed, which is a digital health company.And you might recall previously she served as CEO of X.She was the chair of global advertising and partnerships at NBC Universal and across media, technology, healthcare.She is the one who's brought a steady hand to fastm moving industries and has that rare firsthand perspective of what it takes to steer an organization through disruption, rebuild trust, and come out stronger on the other side.And of course, what is special is that Linda is not just a Penn Stater herself, she's also a PSU mom.With that, and with my sincere thank you, I will hand things over to Jeff.
Jeff opens by defining disruption and comparing higher education with journalism's transformation. The panel begins discussing how technology, changing expectations, and declining trust are reshaping institutions.
Thank you, uh, Neilie.It's great to see all of you and thanks for everyone joining us from across uh, Penn State.I want to start with the word that Neilie used uh, earlier in her welcoming comments, this idea of disruption.And we use it so often I think that sometimes it loses its meaning.And we're going to be talking about how this impacts different industries uh today.You know, disruption is really when many of the assumptions an organization would built on stops being true.Um and I think that is true for so many industries today including the sector of higher education.You know Nick and I both come from a similar field uh in journalism or the same field I should say in journalism.I remember in 1995 when I was working as a reporter at the Arizona Republic, it was the year that many newspapers were starting their first websites.
I remember when we were introduced to the New Arizona Republic website at a lunch.Um, and a reporter asked the head of the new website, "Well, won't this put us out of business?"Um, and he said, "No, we're always going to be a public trust.People will always want a newspaper on their front porch or at the end of their driveway."Well, we know what happened over the next decade, right?Craigslist, Google, Facebook chipped away at the business and then there is this device that came a decade later that put news um in our pocket and now the newspaper industry, the news business in general is nothing like itwas back in 1995.And almost every industry has its own version of that story as we're going to be talking about it uh today, you know, and several forces are driving it all at once.
One of course is technology.Uh and in this moment AI has gone from a novelty of course to a force reshaping entrylevel work in almost every industry which is uh greatly impacting colleges and universities that often deliver students to those first jobs.The second is expectations in every sector of the economy whether it's the patient experience in healthcare or the customer experience in retail the fan experience in in sports.The expectations are changing and so are student expectations of what they want out of higher education today.And the third is trust.You know, Gallup finds average confidence in major American institutions is at its lowest level in history.Now, I can tell you after traveling the country over the last year, talking about my last book to parents and students and high school educators, people still want a college education.They still want a college education, but they want one that has better outcomes at an affordable price.
And that's why I'm bullish on higher education.It's not that 25 or 30 years ago, people stopped wanting information.Um, they just stopped wanting information in the way that newspapers and magazines and others were delivering it.And so, I think the question in front of us today in terms of higher education is how how are we going to deliver this education?And for the last 60 years, the higher education sector really has one answer to almost every strategic question that um every strategic question that's been asked of it and that is to get bigger.Um adding programs, research labs, campuses, athletic teams, international students, online degrees.And in my opinion, that era is ending.And we have to decide now as institutions, you know, where we're going to play um and more importantly where we can win.that's going to better serve um the students that uh need us um more than ever before.
And so that is the preface for our conversation today.I'm really excited to welcome uh this distinguished uh panel.Um and I want to get started uh Nick with you.Um because as I mentioned uh we both started our career as journalists eventually covering higher education.um as journalists, you have a unique perspective now on higher ed as a sector uh both first through that lens as a national reporter and now as an advocate within ACCE.What um what's one change that you're seeing higher ed leaders are still treating as temporary?Oh, it's it's going to go away, right?this is a minor uh uh shift in in public sentiment or this is a minor shift in federal funding and what are they believing that is is permanent?You know, what what's that one pressure that might be permanent?
Well, u thank you, Jeff.Um and uh uh thank thank you to the Penn State uh community for um letting us chat with you for a little while here.Um, you know, uh, Jeff, as a as an advocate for the whole of higher education, um, right now my head is not trying to critique higher education.So, um, uh, I'm not I'm not here to like sort of point out that, you know, they're missing the boat on this or that, okay?But I would, but I would ask this question.Um uh is it not about scrutiny?Um if I had to sort of sum up the word that pops into my head of like the change since I was a reporter uh covering education institutions uh you know 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 yearsago to being an advocate for education institutions now uh I feel like scrutiny is the thing that is that is uh driving uh all of us.
Um what do I mean by that?I mean scrutiny of inputs and scrutiny of outputs.Uh literally the inputs being um you know the funding streams and the revenue sources that would come from uh public uh sources, the state legislature, congress etc.Um the tuition uh funding streams coming uh from from families and also the outputs you know what what what is coming out of higher education?what is the uh the value of it you know and we we think about that a lot of course but I don't think that um we we really have accepted entirely that like this scrutiny is here to stayyou know that that um in some sense uh higher education uh in in the pre world um took it for granted that people would take its value for granted.
Nick explains how scrutiny of inputs and outputs has become permanent in higher education, while Linda connects those pressures to healthcare's rapid consumerization. The conversation emphasizes speed, scarcity, and shifting expectations across sectors.
Um the and you know there's a lot of good reason for that, right?Uh institutions of higher education do wonderful work in all kinds of ways.And I could make I could make a million arguments about all the wonderful work they do.Um and and the power of a of a bachelor's degree and the economic effects it has and so forth.But it we are under scrutiny.We as a sector are under scrutiny and we have to face that.we have to um live with it continuously.Um, that's just what I would offer as like one starting place for like the the dis the the disruptive forces is that the scrutiny is coming from all directions
and and Nick, it seems like that's been turned up with another sword, scarcity, right?In an era of scarcity, there are scarce resources from the federal government.Uh, we know that the number of students uh at least the number of 18-year-olds in the US is is is falling now uh because of a demographic cliff.We know that fewer students even among those are graduating are going are going even going to college.So we higher ed has really hasn't lived through an era of scarcity in the modern era if you go all the way back to the 1960s.And so the scrutiny and that scarcity are kind of hitting at the same time.uh requiring leaders and and those working in institutions to think very differently about the next 10 years and next 20 years than they have about the last 20 years
and to accept that um their first initial answers to whatever is being scrutinized will be scrutinized again.
Yeah.
And again and again.there's a there's an iterative process to the scrutiny and response that I think frankly could be healthy but is also you know a pain in the neck.So, Linda, you know, when I always talk to uh higher ed leaders about other industries, they often don't like to be compared to other sectors of the economy, but if there is one sector uh that they're often comparedto, it is healthcare.Um and and and in many ways, healthcare and higher ed are facing parallel questions, right?rising costs, um, accessibility to care or accessibility to education, uh, trust, although I would argue that maybe healthcare now has higher trust than than higher ed, but growing workforce demands.Uh, these are both very people centric um, industries.Um, so as healthcare adapts in real time, what strategies, tensions or practices do you think higher ed leaders and people who are working in higher ed should be paying attention to?
And how do how do leaders distinguish between, you know, a disruption that demands kind of fundamental change and those that just require patience?
Well, thank you.I just want to say I'm so thrilled, honored to be amongst you all today and quite inspired so far by Jeff your comments and questions, but Nick specifically about a couple of things that you said because I oftenthink uh since I I have uh you know kind of jumped to and and started leading uh what I hope to be significant uh you know healthc care transformation.the the the words you use scrutiny values uh you know like you think about what was taken for granted but now scarcity I would add to the that you know kind of list of thought starters and think Iwhat we're often confronted about which is very challenging for both higher ed and for health care is actually the speed at which things are changing whether you want to or not I I often add another word there and
say the ludicrous speed about um the expectations and Jeff something you said we talk about all the time in healthcare and I know it's already you know impact um higher ed as well is that the change I'll usemy phone as a prompt is that health care is also now going into the consumer's palm of their hand right because the transformation that is hitting health care today is is that what was once assumed you know ofcourse in an acute situation you still go to the hospital, but your healthcare is moving from your doctor's office into your home 24/7, you can have it at your fingertips for most treatable things.So, so we'll talk about that, but but when you think about the commonalities between higher ed and and health care, both trusted institutions to your point, and and actually um built for a world that's changing faster than any
of us are used to.So, so to the point about speed, you know, the the demographic changes, we we think about that as a as a company like mine because if think about it, the first couple of rungs of of um entrylevel jobsare now going to be absorbed by AI.We're now hiring for different skills in health care, right?So we want those um things to be addressed for or you know confront what AI is changing actually the work where I think is a common thing I look for all the time in healthcare and that we canwork side by side in higher ed because the human parts that are surfacing the human needs whether it's judgment empathy trust those are the things that maybe you could tell that power plates are shifting But what higher edcan really or is going to have to to solve for, right?
So if if AI and is going to do a lot of the actual tasks or work, what is becoming more and more important for people that in healthcare are looking to solve for um Go ahead.I'm sorry, Jeff.
Yeah, that's all right.Go ahead.and you finish your thought because I we are going to take a deeper dive on AI in a few minutes but go ahead.
Okay.But it's it's really um forcing the transformation you look like what do I look for um that is um the importance what do you solve for immediately or what do you have patience about right so when I thinkabout the um um what what I task my teams to solve for immediately is what exactly um affects our customer and the customer journey right and and the customer or who are members are patients of their expectation ofhealth care is becoming what could be as easy as they think I'm ordering something off Amazon.And that is what we talk about all day every day.And I'm sure Joe when you talk you will you will um I would assume support that to a large degree, right?Because the consumer demand today in healthcare is why is health care so opaque?Why is it so expensive?
Why is it so hard to navigate?And those things, those words can also,
by the way, all three of those things you just said could be used to apply to higher ed,
higher ed.So, so that's why I I buddy up with Neilie a lot.And I also think about um how that can impact or be an inspiration for what do the curriculums look like today in higher ed that would create the most attractive um members of my workforce of many workforces oftomorrow because they're prepared to be able to obviously uh deal with technology right?But be that solution provider, that thought navigator um in technology to answer those questions for tomorrow because the consumer need and I use the word consumer um because because people are starting to think about health care in thatexact same way because they're now technology has been liberated.It's sophisticated, right?um and morph to the point where I can be everyday consumer can be the chief medical officer of their own health and that is for the first time in history has brought health care actually out of the hospitals
and doctor's office to the kitchen table
Joe describes how professional services must respond to changing expectations and move faster without losing purpose. The panel discusses why higher education must adapt now, while still preserving quality and careful judgment.
and so Joe so Joe I'm just kind of curious let's let's just move beyond health care for a second here because you have helped PWC kind of navigate large-scale technology and organizational change.You're also working with Penn State on AI and digital learning.I know.What can higher ed learn from how other industries are responding to disruption?
Well, it's it's fascinating and let me add my thanks for being here.It's awesome to be with this group, but it's fascinating to listen first to Nick and then and then to Linda because there's so much in what they've said that I think applies across industry.This idea that expectations are changing.For us, it's a B2B expectation.our clients look to us to to not just deliver differently but to lead differently.And I think when you start to talk about the kind of conversation Linda is driving where healthc care consumption is now feeling much more like a consumer expectation than some mysterious structure that it felt like it had beenfor a long time.I think that's very true certainly in professional services the kinds of models that we had built and you have to go back a long time.I mean we we we were founded right here in London in 1849.
So just just six years before our great university was founded, we've built a lot of process in 170 years.We've built a lot of expectations of how that should work.And right now with the expectations outside the organization changing the the obligation I put on our teams is the expectation for change has got to be even higher inside the organization.Neie hit this in her u op-ed piece that she had in in US News and World Report and I think it was so well said that that I had a boss that I worked for for years uh whoused to say you do not fix the roof when the when it's raining you fix the roof when the sun is shining and it's such a great simple analogy because if you are not driving change the kind ofspeed that Linda is talking about a speed that is uncomfortable simply because the world is driving at an uncomfortable pace then you're you're going to lose the race and if it doesn't feel like a race.
It's time to look around the table and challenge each other to make sure everybody feels like it's a race.
Okay.
None of that speed,
sorry, one last point.None of that speed should change the focus, the the the scrutiny point that Nick made at the beginning.The the the why are we here?What's our purpose?What's our organizational purpose?That has to remain front and center for why you're doing what you're doing.It's not speed for speed's sake, but in this environment of tech changing the way it is, you have to move fast.
So, fair enough.Um, but somebody could argue it's interesting, you know, we're here celebrating the 250th uh anniversary birthday of the US and when you look back at all the uh guy because they were all guys who signed uh the Declarationof Independence, half of them graduated from colonial colleges, right?So we have institutions, higher education institutions that are older than the country.And so somebody might argue, hey, we've been around longer than the country.Meanwhile, you know, health care, you know, hospitals have come and gone.Uh, healthcare companies have come and gone, companies have come and gone.So, I guess the question is like why now?Like why do we why do we as an industry, you know, Nick talked about scrutiny?Um, so maybe that's the answer, but why now?Like why do we need to really kind of speed up now and think of this disruptive period as a period where we need to really rethink the underlying model of higher education?
Because somebody could argue we're just going to make it through this like we have everything else.World Wars, depressions, pandemics, etc.Anybody want to take that?Let me jump in, Jeff, to say, you know, yes to your colonial college point, but we've been adapting a lot uh ever since, you know, um you know, the the introduction of the land grant universities, the the developmentof research university culture, the introduction of community colleges as a movement, as an idea, um the disruption of world wars, uh you know, and the expansion of access.But we have been adapting in higher education for a long long time.Um I think that the the moment now of adaptation uh is is urgent um for some of the reasons we've been talking about here but it's not new.You know we've we've had we've had to adapt before and we will adapt now.
I would say one of the interesting things about the discussion about speed in our adaptation is that we also have a unique responsibility for quality you know and that's true uh too for the healthc care field I daresay um you know sure consumers want quick answers to their medical problems and sure students want you know quick uh answers to their uh you know homework assignments but um We we need to be um not just fast,but we need to be we need to be careful and right.And I'm convinced that higher education will u be careful and right.We just need to kind of keep both of those thoughts in our head at the same time.
And by the way, Nick, I don't think it's a binary choice because I have a ninth grader and an 11th grader at home and I hope that colleges don't just like take their time at solving this because bythe time they're into college and through college, I want them to have figured uh this out.So, Linda, you were going to say something.
Yeah.No, I was going to jump in because again Nick's comments specifically when he said um higher ed has been changing.It's it might be more urgent, but it's certainly not new.And and as many of you probably know, I am a very vocal, proud pen pen stater as Neilie said and I wear that degree like a badge of honor, right?And one of the things I talk about most often is how Penn State prepared me for what I was going to encounter in my life.Not only just in my career, but in my life.Because Penn State has this unique almost alchemy to bring together the community, the the academics, the the whole experience to prepare you for what's next.That's why we're all very um uh vocal, excited advocates of Penn State.But to get back to um the the the world outside is acutely different today because of the speed at which it's changing.
So, so where I would say it's I agree more urgent and not new but we have to approach what the environment our students are going to encounter once they graduate and leave the university and that requires what Ithink technology is driving or AI or or or a bunch of other things like fundamental um organizational and transformational change.
So, Let's jump.
The discussion turns to AI and how it is changing entry-level work, training, and decision-making. Joe and Linda explain how AI can automate routine tasks while elevating human judgment and freeing time for higher-value work.
Okay.I'm sorry.
So, yeah, let's jump into AI and technology because clearly uh we can't have a panel without talking uh about it.Um and and I think there is a promise right now like there is in every industry and every sector of the economy that AI can really um change the model of colleges and universities again very people centric uhuh institutions and start to bend the cost curve eventually on on on and improve services and put people closer to students rather than you know back office operations.Uh so Joe, let me start with you on this because I know at at PWC you're working on on on in this area.Can you give us an example of how AI has changed a job or redesigned a team?And more than that, um I'm also interested in this is not just about saving time, but it's then what you do with that time savings, right?
So, you know, what happened to the time or resources that were freed up and and more importantly, how did you bring employees along?
Yeah, there's there's a lot in that question.Sorry.No, it's okay.It's a it's a good media one.The so let me start with what's changing and I'll I'll give a perspective in terms of our own business and again it's something that that my co-panelist hit as well.What we would have expected from somebody coming into an entry- level job in professional services, certainly when I started 30 plus years ago, is you'd be grinding through an awful lot of data.You'd be reading a lot.You'd be mentored by somebody who was spending a lot of time demonstrating what the job looked like.So essentially that on the job training next to somebody and you're learning the job by repeating and consumption of the data, repeating and consumption of the knowledge, you're digging into it.We we don't have the luxury of teaching our people that way.
And I think that's a really important correlary for higher education.By the way, the way people will learn is going to have to be very, very different.What we now expect our people to do is hit the ground with a lot of expertise.That expertise may be their expertise, but the expertise more often is expertise they draw on from AI capabilities and tools.And so, one of the first things we did was how do we get very powerful, well-ontrolled, well-governed, data secure tools into as many people's hands as we can because we knew they would help us reshape the work.And then to your point, they did they absolutely demonstrated that a lot of the things that we had taken as kind of the the base case of the way that our work operated, a lot of those things havebeen changing very rapidly because our people are changing them.
And I'll give a very specific example which is the diligence of new deals, a business that we've been in for a very very long time.It wasn't uncommon in the first phase of a new deal's diligence.We'd park a bunch of people in a room.We'd stack them with data and we'd tell them to pour through it.And after they poured through it, they'd have their red flags.I see Linda Linda smiling because she has lived in these rooms over her career.Uh but you get through that process and then you say here are the deal flags.Here are the things that going to create value.Here are the risks that we have to travel through.AI is remarkably good at doing that and arguably much better than most humans.And so now what you do is you take advantage of that technology in order to elevate the conversation.
Focus more on the solve than on the collect.And I think that is a really important lesson for all of us.We're all going to be working with AI tools all the time.We're expecting our people to do it.That's why we're training 370,000 people around the world and have been for now two years.It's why that training is refreshed all the time because what they what they learned the last time we took them through it isn't what we need them to know now.So there's an agility to the way we expect people to play out.And we're expecting them to maintain this is why I think this quality point is so important.Maintain their accountability and their human judgment.But the the agent made me do it is not a defense that anybody wants to stand behind.At the end of the day, people have got to be accountable for the work that they perform, whether they perform it themselves with a team, with agents, with other technology.
That's really where this is all going.
Uh, if I could just jump in and add to Joe's comments, and I was smiling.I don't know if I actually was smiling or having PTSD from being those rooms for days and days on end.Most of them included weekends, too.Yes.But but the the thing I would add because I I would really like to connect the dots to the opportunity for Penn State University students, right, which I get super excited about.But the way we think about or have to think about, you know, kind of the impact of AI, it's really that AI and the tools or the AI literacy is going to become a baseline expectation, right?So, so it's when we interview at any level at my company, it's a baseline expectation, but I'm going to just double down on a word that Joe used is is how do you use your human judgment, right?
The human judgment to make that decision.So, those are the kind of like interview questions or things that are starting to seep in, which is I love it.I'm going to steal it.I'm just telling you right now.That is the AI made me do it.It's it's actually a scenario or a simulation that you have to ask.So, so the people that are joining your organization or your team have to be able to use those unique human skills of judgment which eventually leads to wisdom, right, to make those kind of business decisions.And that's where you'll deliver value for Joe, the PWC's, you know, customers and clients or the way we think about things here is is that judgment that really the way we think about AI in ultimately healthcare is deliveringthat.I think Jeff, you mentioned it.Um, the gift of time back to a member or patient that can spend more time with a clinician, but used those AI tools to do the tasks and to digest or process the data that once took a team
of people weeks, days is now going to be a matter of minutes, maybe an hour before they can actually have access um to their human doctor that they need.
The panel examines how higher education's governance structure can slow change and where institutions are encountering friction around AI. Linda emphasizes transparency, reskilling, and clear communication to reduce uncertainty among employees.
So Nick, the the thing that's different of course about higher ed as you well know is that um you know it is based on tradition uh you know boards look out into five 10 15 years it's not aboutthe next quarter and of course higher ed is very unique in how it's governed um it has this very uh you know this unique shared governance model uh where both you know the staff and faculty the senior leadershipthe board um are you know supposed to work together in concert um that could also mean change is slow um as a result.So where are you seeing institutions build more flexibility right now where they're moving more nimly?You know what what and and and where are they running into pain points?
Well, I mean you can see pain points in some of the headlines as as um in as you know institutions are encountering sort of questions about AI in all directions.uh questions about how it's it's used in the classroom and then questions about whether students are cheating and you know I mean the the pain points are are are almost everywhere because of the change.Um but you know uh I the way I see it is like and I think the way most higher ed leaders see it is um that it's actually a wonderful opportunity.Um I would amend the human judgment uh excellent point.just even further to say human intelligence and and elevate HI um which is our specialty that's our calling card in higher education hi uh with AI and pair it and have it be an absolute you know fixed principlethat hi goes with AI at all times and um uh you know there's there's going to be amazing opportunities for faculty um to reinvent their courses um And that kind of shared governance that you're talking about um is
is where sort of the the administration of universities is really going to have to lean heavily on the expert the pedagogical expertise of faculty to sort of come up with those answers um for for you know what's thebest way to incorporate this tool into our toolkit.Um but but yeah, I mean I I think that that it's going to make us all work harder, not easier,
you know, and that because we're going to have to question our assumptions about about why we do certain things.
Um even as even as we're saving time, we're going to have to rethink the you know, the way courses are taught and the way they're assessed and so forth.
And and those assumptions, Nick, are often built and it's not just in higher ed.It's it's in any of our jobs into the identity of what we do and who we are.And I think Linda, this is probably the more difficult thing that I see not only in higher ed but in other sector leaders that I talk with is how do you bring that workforce along as AI changes theirroles?Um and you know and especially in healthcare and education, they're very missiondriven um sectors of the economy, right?people go into them, you know, not always because they're going to make a lot of money, but because they really believe in it.And now suddenly AI is changing their role.Um, you know, this is certainly true of physicians, it's certainly true of faculty members, but it's it's true of a lot of people who work in these sectors.
So, how you know, how what have you learned about earning the trust of of employees and bringing along a workforce as AI changes their roles?Well, first of all, I'll start with um you know, two of the most important things or decisions that people make in life, right?And that they invest probably the the most money in whenever they can to a maximum degree is the education of their children or was the education of themselves or their children, but then also in their family's health, right?So they really do have so much in common.Uh to your point of saying that they really are as if you're going to get into that business, it's missiondriven or if you happen to land in those those businesses or those worlds, you have to uh prioritize kindof the the moral compass of the decisions that you make as a leader.
Couldn't be more important.But but quite frankly to be a business leader at a health care company that doesn't give you permission or make it any easier or give you that permission to move more slowly.It just means that the decisions you make are likely more consequential.Right?So it goes back to answer your question or how do you navigate the organization through change and and um it's actually um I would say no matter what uh company or teams I've led because I seem to alwaysbe at an inflection point of change I gravitate towards that throughout my career and it is you know truly transparency right so so you have to be transparent and continually ually communicative with your teams, right?With your teams as you're trying to lead them through change because think about the conversations you have today with the technology change is you're um telling them about I don't know the most exciting tool you brought into the
company maybe and there are people in the room or in the company um that are saying will I have a job tomorrow?So, you have to be transparent and thoughtful to to every level at your company and and in particular uh and I'm quite sure that that that both Joe and Nick would would agree with this that you have tobe thoughtful about the full endto-end spectrum of implication which means reskilling or upskilling or what are you going to do with this time now that we freed up so we can get your job to do smarter better things.And I think it requires leaders today to be moving actually more quickly but actually to think about because you don't have the three to five year plan time that you used to have.I remember when I used to work at NBC Universal back in the day we used to do three to five year budgeting long range planning and budgeting that has gone the way of the dinosaur.
I like that it might be I can I get three to five
months.Yeah,
to to think about that planning.But but again, I think the
the the the thoughtful death hand of of um thinking about the the worst thing uh uh an employee could have at your company is a feeling of uncertainty.
Now look, there's going to be uncertainty uh that with economic impact, things like that that that has never changed, right?But no one who you lead should be unclear about their leaders thoughtfulness and strategy um about where they're bringing the company in a time of such extreme transformation.So are we using um AI as much as we can at this company?Are we using agents or bots more than ever before?Yes.But what does that mean for each person in your organization?And that only comes with consistent transparency and communication and and no one expects that there won't be change.They just want to know how that change is going to impact them.
The conversation shifts to trust and what leaders often get wrong when managing transformation at scale. Nick discusses public misunderstandings about higher education, especially around affordability, student diversity, and the need for clearer value.
Yeah, I think certainty is a is a key word here.So, we have about 20 minutes left, a little bit less than 20 minutes.I I want to get through two big sections here of our of my notes on our conversation today.one is around this idea of trust um and and this idea of trust in leadership uh Linda that you brought up and then we're going to take it home by bringing it all back to Penn State um andand and figuring out um how this fits in with the larger context not only of higher ed but Penn State um specifically and Joe I want to start with you on this because um you know you have youhave done a lot of transformation work um at at PWC what's the thing that you've seen leaders often get wrong.
Yeah.
When trying to implement a change, especially across a large organization, if I'm if I'm leading a small organization, I could basically go and talk to everybody, but when you're leading a university the size of a Penn State oran organization the size of PWC, what do leaders often get wrong?It's a great question and and Jeeoff honestly it it comes down to me to something we all tell ourselves which is the organizations we're in we we create cultures we create alignment we create management schemas and that's allreally important but if you forget that at the end of the day on the other side of your transformation is a person a human who's got obligations.They've got their mortgage.They've got a sick parent.They've got kids that they're worried about.they've got a neighbor who is, you know, maybe not not crossing the fence when they want them to or crossing the fence when they don't want them to.
They have all these things going on.And if you're trying to transform an organization and bring people along along the way, and you don't bring that with transparency and you don't bring it with clarity, all this idea of certainty and trust that we're talking about,if you miss that step, they will be left wondering why you're asking them to do what they're doing.And if they're left wondering why to ask them what what you're doing, why you're asking them to do what they're doing, they're going to be left trying to make a judgment whether or not the change is good forthem.And at the end of the day, we're all human.We're going to evaluate what we're being asked to do as to how it fits into what we think is happening to ourselves.It's exactly the fear point that that Linda raised about if you leave people wondering, you leave them uncertain, you leave them worried, it's going to be really difficult to bring them along.
And it is unfortunately a really really common mistake.And in this world of transformation, we all talk about what these opportunities are.And by the way, these opportunities are massive and significant to do more with less.And it doesn't have to be less people.It could be less dollars and resources that are other kinds of resources in this opportunity.If you're if you're driving a discussion that is only about efficiency, we're going to make the place more efficient.And you're missing the ambition, the vision, this is where we're going.This is why we're doing it.We're doing it because we want to serve our clients better.We want to do it because we want to serve more clients.We want to reach more clients in tiers that perhaps we would have been unaffordable before and now we can serve them in a meaningful highquality way.
If you're not connecting those dots, people will fill them in for themselves and and very often they're going to take an understandably skeptical view of why you're asking them to do what you're doing.
So, I want to um just kind of tie a ribbon around this idea of trust, Nick.Um, you know, I led off uh earlier uh in the hour around, you know, all of these trust metrics around higher ed.Um, you know, we see these surveys.I actually think they're a little bit off to be honest with you.Uh, and I, you know, I'm dealing in anecdotes now.I realize because, you know, I've traveled around the country for the book and and just the amount of people that I see and talk to, parents, families, right?Higher ed is still the dream, right?It's still part of the American dream that you're going to send your kids off to college.Um, it's a maturation process.It's a growth process.It's education.And then you're going to launch them into the world.And so there is still a real deep seat of belief that college is is worth it.
I think the big question is like where is it worth it?Uh what am I going to major in?How much I going to pay for this?Right?There are questions around that of course.So, what do you think?What do you think the public gets right and what is misunderstood about higher ed because now you've worked on both sides of this equation, right?You've talked to the readers uh as a journalist and now you're seeing it from the higher ed leaders you're working with at ACE.
Yeah.I mean, we've been obsessed with public confidence questions about higher ed for the last decade or so um through uh various political environments and you know, those questions are real.Um uh look um I I think that one thing the public misses about higher ed is that um a higher ed is is for various points in your life.It's not just about for sending your kid off to college.It's for you know the the 25year-old who's who's um maybe going to go to college for the first time or come back to college.It's for the 35 or 45 yearear-old etc.Like so there there's a whole universe of the what I would call the the other students who are actually the students who you know the public sometimes misses in this uh vision of sending our kids off to college.Okay.So there's that part.
Um there there is another piece that the public has very right um which is that like you know affordability is a is you know a massive issue.you know, we our our American politics just went through a moment uh yesterday uh that in which affordability was an issue, but that it's been an issue for us for a long time in higher ed.And I think I I would argue that clarity uh about afford is is is one of our best answers on the affordability question.Um you know, higher ed is not always going to be free.Sometimes it is, but um it it it can be more clear about what it costs um and uh and and what the expectations are and what you get in return for it, you know, and I think the publichas a right to demand uh uh that that kind of clarity about affordability and about value.
And that goes back to the scrutiny thing I mentioned at the outset here.So if if we if we can if we can home in on sort of uh educating the public a bit more about who students really are.Um if we can get if we can complexify the conversation beyond a few um headline grabbing institutions um where there might be an incident or something that you know gets political attention and sort of help the public understandthe breadth of higher education in its full magnificence which Penn State illustrates then you know then we can have a real conversation about the things that are the pain points and you know and about student success.You know we we at ACE are promoting something called the National Student Success Project.I'm going to plug it right here, but the the National Student Success Project is focused on these questions of, you know, value and affordability and and uh and career and so forth in part because we see a need
uh for trust uh to be addressed directly um and clearly by higher education.
The panel brings the discussion back to Penn State's position of strength and its ability to act boldly. Linda and Joe argue that the university can leverage its brand, people, and leadership to make ambitious changes.
So, let's bring it back to Penn State.We have a couple of minutes left here.Um, you know, one of the things that's interesting to me now as I look at the landscape of higher ed across the 25 plus years I've been in and around it is a place like Penn State really isum in a position of strength right now in a lot of ways, right?You know, it's a largecale major research enterprise, you know, public land grant uh you know, in in a big state has this huge and and and very dedicated alumni network.I know it because I live with one right here at home.Uh my wife is a Penn State grad as as are all her family.uh and so um so I see that uh in in in her family but um and so the change is that these you know so on one side people say well institutions like this don't need to change but
when they make changes they are operating from this position of strength and I think that's the part part that's hard when as a leader in institution that is doing in a position of strength that's making changes it's hardfor everybody to understand well why are they doing it they're doing well.And that's kind of where I want to end this today in talking um in talking about that because I guess um let me start with you Linda like as you you know you have experiences you've mentioned your workat you know NBC at X um now in healthcare right like what would you apply specifically to Penn State and what do you see as critical to help the university even become stronger than it is today?like is there one lesson that you've learned across all those different industries that you've worked in that you would tell us today Penn State yes you're strong but here's how you become stronger
well I first of all I think the um the equity or the brand value of Penn State for all the things that we've talked about uh from the the incredibly dedicated alumni base to to to the accomplished, youknow, graduates, etc., um, cannot be underscored.And the position of strength that Penn State is in is in a very unique elite pool of universities.So, I think it goes back to Joe, I think you're the one who said, um, you don't fix the roof when it's raining, you you fix it when it's, you know, sunny out.Penn State has the ability to be bold, dare I say, audacious during this time of change because of all it already has and brings to the table.So to make an aggressive move that says we're going to do the following things to prepare our new set of students to become more prepared to become invaluable to the employers of tomorrow because we have trained them in
this way.I think Penn State has a unique uh they're in a unique position to have more permission to do those bold things and whether it not is think about it.It's one of the top engineering schools in the country.What could you do to take advantage of this moment that we're in to push forward that that conversation and that's just one example of whether it's the Bellisario School of Communications.they they're so steeped in this this value uh position that they're in.You I think you got to go big now.
And Joe, this is not just a go big now for the top leadership of universities.You've led these largecale changes like what role do you see employees playing in helping Penn State adapt while preserving what matters most?How has this how does this have to be like an entire one university movement?Look, I I think that when you when you get to the hard problems, the people that work the hard problems understand the hard problems and they live in them because they're at them every day.If you don't have those people at the table, the faculty, the people that are leading the classes, the the people that are understanding how to enroll students, the people that are managing the facilities, if you don't have themat the table, it's really hard to solve the really hard problem.So, I think it's both.Um there's been a lot of study on transformational structures and there's a lot of thinking about bottoms up transformation that are driven at the citizen level if you will.
There's a lot about top- down architecture of transformation.But what one thing almost all of the research points to is when you have both.You have bold leadership and choices.You have clear direction, clarity, and a vision.And you bring people along.That doesn't mean you're going to bring everybody along.Some people will opt out and that's okay.uh but you give them an opportunity to get on the train with you and if you come along then there's a there's a bright future of us working this very complex moment but this moment of huge opportunity togetherand I think Linda's point is so phenomenal because one of the things we we've done a lot of study on what AI transformation looks like and what works and what doesn't and when you peel back a lot ofthe uh a lot of the data one of the most important attributes is bold decisioning and leadership this is about choices and management it's not about the technology it's not even really about the external pressures.
It's about leadership.And that to me is what this really comes down to.If you have the right leadership, then people will will support that leadership.They're going to lean in.They're going to come along on the ride.And at the end of the day, we can create a much better experience for our students.We can create more opportunity for them.We can bring the Penn State brand into this world of of of helping other organizations drive this opportunity.And I think we're in a unique position to do it.
In a lightning round, the speakers identify what higher education should stop doing to thrive: chasing differentiation without relevance, reinforcing elitism, and forgetting the opportunity in front of it. Each speaker offers a concise call to action for Penn State and the sector.
I couldn't agree with Linda more.
Okay.quickly, Nick, because I want to get to a lightning round with all of us.Um, Joe just mentioned choices.Um, but there are some, you're a student of higher ed.Um, it is a, as we said many times throughout this hour, it's a very missiondriven sector.Um, what's the one thing that you would tell Penn State to protect at all costs?
I mean, look, you know, I I would say that it's it's baked into the name
Penn State.Yeah.
Right.and like that implies its relationship with the state of Pennsylvania.It implies something public.Um it implies a wholeness.Um it implies pride.Um and that sort of uh that that pride um that that is literally its competitive advantage in in many ways.Um uh not that other public institutions in Pennsylvania aren't wonderful either, but like Penn State can lean on its and bank on and build on its relationship with the state of Pennsylvania.And I I trust and assume that it will and that it will deepen that deepen those relationships with the state of Pennsylvania, in every corner of the state, in in every neighborhood in Philadelphia, in every neighborhood in Pittsburgh,in every neighborhood in central Pennsylvania and in northeastern and northwestern Pennsylvania.That's the point, right?
That's my hometown, Northeastern Pennsylvania.Uh thanks, Nick, for the uh for the shout out.So, let's do a quick uh lightning round here before we invite Neie back.Um, and I'll and I'll start with my own answer.You know, what's the one thing that higher ed needs to stop doing if it really wants to thrive in the next decade?And as I said, I'll I'll start out just 30 seconds each.Um, I often think that higher ed right now, I'm hearing from so many leaders around differentiation, right?We need to be different in a era where there's 3,000 plus institutions.We need to be different.But I often think that most institutions confuse differentiation with relevance.Um, as I wrote recently in a piece that I did, you know, differentiation without relevance is really a distinctiveness that no one will pay for or wants, right?
So if you're going to be you know so you really have to be relevant and how is everything that we're doing as an institution relevant relevant to the to the nation to international uh needs uh in research forexample all the way down to the education of our students to the relevancy of the of the economy and the workforce and the needs of society today that to me is more important than differentiation so let's go arounduh Linda I'll start with you then Nick and we'll end with Joe
I I I will riff off your relevance uh comment and and I wouldn't say necessarily what they should stop doing or do differently.I would say that imagine how exciting it would be to to attract the greatest minds of tomorrow at Penn State if you actually were uh very front and center and bold that that Penn State is attacking the toughestproblems, right?Run towards the hard things.any the the successful companies of tomorrow will say that they worked on the hard problems.That's what's exciting for students to come and join, right?Work the hard stuff.Work on the data center that's going to be on Mars.Work on, you know, the environmental impact of how you navigate this technology change.That's exciting for students and more than ever because they're so connected.That's what relevance is to them.I want to work on the real world stuff and I think Penn State has a very unique opportunity to go all in on that.
Great.Nick, 30 seconds.
Yeah.I I just think that higher education needs to shed the perception and I emphasize perception that it is elitist.Um it needs to shed that perception and it needs to focus instead on sort of lifting people up which has been its mission all along.We are not elitist.
Uh Joe, what does it need to stop doing if it wants to thrive?I I would say don't don't forget the power of the moment, the opportunity that's in front of us.This the the mission of these organizations is to to elevate people.What an amazing mission that is.What a place to put all of our energies, put all of our our intelligence, put all of our investment, and to sit in the spot that the higher education organizations and that Penn State sits in right now.Incredible opportunity.Don't forget how awesome the moment is.
The host returns to close the session, thanking the panel and summarizing key takeaways. The event ends with appreciation for the community and a final Penn State sign-off.
It's great.And with that, um, we're going to welcome Neie back.This has been a great conversation with Nick, Linda, and Joe.Neie,
it truly has been an ex exceptional conversation.Thank you to each and every one of you.Jeff, thank you for being such a wonderful moderator, Nick, Joe, Linda.I cannot say enough thank yous.Uh, thank you to the community, for our faculty and staff and students for joining.Thank you for your interest in the direction of our university and all the incredible work that you do.So many takeaways.I'd love to hear from all of you what resonated the most with you or what is one takeaway uh that you will hold on to.I loved so many things I could keep going.Uh Joe, we are acting from a position of strength.So I love the fix the roof now when it's sunny and don't wait for the rain.That's too late to be uh able to act.Um love Nick what you said about human intelligence and that's where we invest and we should shed the perception of elitism.
That's not something uh we take lightly at Penn State.We are after all um started off as the Farmers High School.We never forget that that's who we are for.And Linda, so many wonderful things that you said about the choices that we face now, about the leadership, and about tackling the toughest problems that are there.And I know Penn State is ready and poised for that because I know our people.And I'm excited.Uh everybody, you will find the link to this video, this session on our roadmap website, the roadmap for Penn State University's future.Uh I'm deeply committed to keeping all of you informed at and connected as we move forward.And the only way to finish this out and you know Jeff also has a Penn State connection.I know Nick will have a Penn State connection somewhere because Penn Stator, we are everywhere.
But let me log off and Linda and Joe, you need to be ready to say we are
Penn State.
All right.Thank you everybody.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you so much.