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The episode opens with Christiana Politis's background, her collaborations with Nida Chenagtsang, and the many organizations she has founded. The host sets up the conversation by highlighting her publishing, medical, and retreat projects.
In this episode, I am joined by Christiana Politis, practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism, long-time collaborator of Tibetan spiritual teacher Nida Chenagtsang, and founder of Sky Press Books, Pure Land Farms, the So Rigpa Institute, and more.Christiana recalls her privileged upbringing in Manhattan, New York, her education in comparative religions at Harvard University, and her deep involvement in the '90s New York yoga scene.Christiana talks about her discipleship under and collaborations with Nida Chenagtsang, reflects on the tantric guru-disciple relationship, and considers the trend of asking one's guru for advice about life choices.Christiana shares her own journey to personal empowerment and self-direction,
why working closely with a guru requires adaptability, and gives a potted history of the many religious and cultural organizations she has founded.So, without further ado, Christiana Politis.Christiana Politis, welcome to the podcast.
Hello, welcome.Sorry.Let me start that again.Where we go?
We should keep that in.That's so funny.We were just talking before
We were just talking before that um Christiana Christiana, you are always the host.You are always the behind-the-scenes, the organizer, um the facilitator, and my gosh, the things you've facilitated and the things you've organized and founded is incredible amount of stuff you've done.So, I think that's just classic.Instincts die hard, it seems.
That's true.Yeah, I'm not used to being on this side of on this side of things, so that was a funny reflex.Thank you for having me.
No, it's it's uh so great to talk to you.And as I said, I've great admiration for all the things you've done, and all the institutions you've founded and so on, and Sky Press, for example, your publishing company, 10 years this year.Incredible.You were just remarking earlier that you're going to have a big sort of 10-year celebration.That's fantastic.And that's the that's the company that's published publishes all of Dr.Nida Chenagtsang's books, recently anyway, most of his recent ones, including the Karma Mudra book.
Correct.
I would discuss with him, including the recent Mudra manual.And various other things.And listeners of the podcast, of course, who have seen my interviews with Dr.Nida will be aware of those books because we've discussed them.And
not only that, a training institute for traditional Tibetan medicine, Sorigpa.And not only that, Pure Land Farms.A kind of retreat center and much more than that, really.Spiritual center, really, in Topanga, California.And on and on and on we could keep going.And we will.So, I'd like to talk about all that stuff.But let's begin at the beginning.I'm very curious about your upbringing.Um your background.Could you say something about the context of your upbringing, your childhood?What sort of home did you grow up in, and that sort of thing?
Christiana describes growing up in Manhattan in a privileged Greek-American family, with an atheist father and limited church involvement. She recalls her schooling, international exposure, and early questions about religion and spirituality.
Sure.So, I grew up in New York City in Manhattan to Greek-American parents.Uh my father was born in New York.My mother came to New York when she was 3 years old.So, they're both Greek.Um Although, however, you know, most people ask me if I was very much part of the church in the Greek community, but my father was um very much an atheist and quite skeptical about churches and religions, etc.So, I grew up sort of adjacent to the Greek church, but not really, you know, in the church.Um in New York City.Very privileged family.I went to a private school for all girls.And, you know, I had a a very privileged upbringing, I will say, in New York City.
And that's certainly a city where something like that, privileged upbringing, really means something.So, I'm curious about the lifestyle.When you think back to that lifestyle, can you give us a sense of that?And um I'm also very curious about your schooling.Going to this private school, and what was that like?
Well, I'm I'm the youngest of three sisters.and you know, I was always told although I don't remember so well that I was always a bit of a rebel and though I had to go to this all girls school where we had to wear this sillyuniform, you know, I realized at a very young age that there was nothing in the code that said what color socks do you have to wear.So I would really, you know, kind of push the boundaries of that by wearing multi-colored socks on one foot and they'd have to teachers would tell the parents they have to wear the same color socks and I'd saybut it doesn't say anywhere that you have to wear the same color socks.So there was always a like a little bit of a spirit that didn't quite you know, fit in to this and um being Greek we traveled in the summer times and my father had a lot of connections in
Greece.So I went to Europe.I had friends my friends were growing up were very international kids, you know, they spoke a lot of different languages.So I you know, I grew up feeling a little bit like neither here nor there cuz in I didn't feel exactly like an American kid but when I would go to Europe with my Greek friends I also felta little bit self-conscious that I was kind of the American kid cuz I didn't speak all the languages that they spoke and my parents had very very close friends who lived in Asia.So they you know, traveled a lot and my dad was very much into sailing and and exploring.So I had a little bit of a access to you know, travel and seeing the world but then and then I would come back to this you know, kind of New York City lifestyle which was it's really kind
of all I knew in terms of my schooling.I thought that was the norm.I thought I would live in New York for the rest of my life.I'm you know, there's
I was really quite sure that was you know, the only cosmopolitan place and that's where you had to be and I said there's a there was a certain point when I was around 13 or 14 where I startedto be like this actually not quite not that normal, you know, there's something that doesn't feel quite right to me.So, that was sort of the beginning of my exploration.Although, I would say even earlier as a young child, you know, having had this sort of um little bit difference between having Greek Orthodox friends from Greece who were very much, you know, who in the church and alittle more religious and then my family who was not religious.I always was sort of wondering I had a lot of questions about God and the church and spirituality that I didn't really talk about with my family, but I was sort of exploring a little bit internally.
Had a lot of questions about about spirituality.
I wonder if you might say a bit more about that questioning and did you speak to other people?Did you read things or was it an internal querying?
It was It was an internal query until I was about Yeah, a lot of internal questioning until I was about 14 and my history class of that year was a world religions history class and our summer reading whenI was 13 was to read the book Siddhartha.And that was the book, you know, the first book that I thought I I was thought, "Wow, you know."And then the year that followed, that history class that followed, we had sort of an overview of world religions and it was a class where, you know, my teacher, who's actually still a friend of of mine now, wouldwould really introduce us in a little bit of a practical way.We would read books, but then he would teach us things.So, he would teach us meditation.We went to a Zen center.We went to He would teach us yoga.
Um I got really, you know, inspired and curious and for the first time in many years said, "Oh, I actually really like to be a student and I really like school."And I started reading.So, that kind of started my my search.
She explains how a world religions class and reading Siddhartha sparked her search, leading her into New York's yoga scene. Christiana reflects on the spiritual atmosphere of Ashtanga and related practices, including bhakti, community, and the bodily effects of yoga.
What were you reading?
Um Well, I started So, the first thing I did was I started going to yoga classes in New York City, which was really a very interesting time.So, this was in the kind of mid to late '90s before yoga became, you know, very mainstream.So, I started mostly reading a lot of books on India, different Indian gurus, and um Ramana Maharshi, and, you know, these kind of books looking into Indian spirituality mostly.It was not so deep in Buddhism, but you know, I would read Krishnamurti and different types of books like this.Um so, that was my in.And then, when, you know, when you're that age and you go to yoga classes in New York City, you meet a lot of different people.So, it was kind of a cool scene in those days.People that I didn't really meet in in my neighborhood, you know.
A lot of hipsters, a lot of people who had really interesting lives and had traveled and and been to India.So, that was kind of the process of starting to open my mind a little bit and make me curious.
If I've got this right, the New York yoga scene at that time was really quite interesting.And there was quite some It was just very strong Ashtanga scene there, I think.Is that correct?Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that what you were involved in?I'm curious if you might tell us a little bit about what it was like to be on the ground at that time in the yoga scene.
I I was involved in Ashtanga.Before I got involved in Ashtanga, I used to go to um Dharma Mittra's place.Do you know who he is?
Yeah.
So, now he's become quite famous.At the time, he had this little center on 23rd Street, and it was upstairs, and he had a fluffy pink carpet, and you would put down these little sheets and and do yoga.And for years, I thought he was in I didn't realize he was Brazilian.I just assumed he was this Indian guru.He was named Dharma Mittra, and his English was so-so.So, I went there for a while, and then um I started going to Jivamukti Yoga, which was sort of Ashtanga offshoot vinyasa.And there, you know, you had a lot of interesting people and, you know, actors and famous people and then um nearby was Eddie Stern who was had a Ashtanga yoga center who was quite, you know, very famous Ashtangacenter at the time, very traditional.So, I would go there and I did it, you know, quite religiously for for many years starting in high school and then in college I had a very kind of unusual experience cuz I decided to rent not rent
but use the kind of a dance studio in the dorm where I was and and start running kind of a Mysore style Ashtanga yoga practice group.So, while everybody was kind of out at night doing their things and I was, you know, 6:00 a.m.on the yoga mat for you know, for years.So, that was a kind of a big part of my those years for me.
And you know, at that time I think uh if I think back to that time and the sorts of figures who were prominent at that time, you've mentioned some of them.There was uh I think kind of sense of the spiritual uh potential of yoga somehow or another.Um not always I think especially coherent but there was always some sort of implication of spiritual profundity.Did you find that in your yoga practice?Was it more than just a body-based practice and nervous system regulation practice and so on?Uh did you find spiritual profundity there?I'm wondering about that aspect.
Oh, definitely, for sure.You know, in they would be full-on kind of teachings that would happen in the yoga classes that I would go to.They'd put you on your head and and talk to you about animal rights and vegetarianism and and Dharma teachings and you know, it like you say, it was not that coherent but it it definitely was a prominent partand it would it raised a lot of questions and then a lot of the people who were practicing had spent a lot of time in India.So, you know, I also went to India and then alongside the you know, sort of Mysore Ashtanga, there were always the ashrams that we would visit and so I I would say everybody who was practicing yoga at thosetimes, I think maybe I can't say everybody.It was not a fitness thing yet.Even though it was, you know, rigorous and athletic, it was not people didn't go there for for sports.
And then later, you know, like I'd say in the decades that followed then it started to go into the gyms and become Ashtanga yoga became a fitness thing, but it was not the people who went there at thattime were were not there for that reason.And I think, you know, for myself and probably for many people it was put people on the path.You know, whether people stayed there or not or took different directions, um, it was a very, um, you know, it put people on the path.It put a lot of people on the path, I think.
And of course very body-based practice.
Yeah.
Obviously.I mean, that's goes without saying, isn't it?Uh, whereas, um, meditation, you know, of course it's also body-based, isn't it?You don't you're not doing it anywhere other than your own body.But yoga there was some sense, I think, from what I've read and seen and, uh, and recall from that time, a kind of sense of somehow accessing spirituality through the body and through the movements.Now, I wonder, was that seen as subtle channel work at that time?Were people thinking, "We're we're aligning our channels and so on and that's going to If we align them just right, there's going to be some connection and that'll trigger it inside or some sort of special state."Or was it a sense of through the body working with forces such as, uh, you know, resistance, uh, fear, uh, tension, bracing, and so on.This idea that somehow bodily relaxation can transfer to a kind of spiritual or or metaphysical opening, relaxation, an unclenching of the self, that sort of thing.
Um, sort of more metaphysical kind of idea, I suppose.Where Where What What's your memory of the, uh, I suppose the mechanism that people were believing in in those days that yoga was going to do for them spiritually?
You know, I didn't hear too much talk in those days about subtle body in any depth.Like, I don't remember really learning about that until quite a bit later.Um I would say from my own experience, they would put you into a kind of a state of you would feel high when you would leave from those classes.There was definitely a state of feeling work in your body in a way that you would feel high.And then especially in the sort of trendy New York places, then they would you know, there was sometimes music and and it was all kind of it was a curated experience to make you feel pretty blissed out.
But I don't quite I don't think the teachings were that cohesive in terms of explaining the mechanism of why that happened.Of course, you know, people would go to India and learn different pranayamas and and yogas and but I don't think that's the particular context where I I learned the explanations of how it worked.I think it was more a collective experience in the studio.It's very hot, it was very sweaty, there were a lot of cool people that would come together and do this very very rigorous I mean, it was very rigorous and I at the end, you know, like it wascomplete and you would be put into a state of meditation and you would feel completely blissed out.And then there was a community that would evolve around it.So, I I can't quite speak for anything else.Maybe there was something deeper than that that was going on, but I was again, I was like 16.
So, for me, I didn't have that language yet or or the philosophy behind it.But what I really remember feeling was this very strong collective feeling.And then there a kind of a bhakti, there was like a devotional thing that was coming.And those were the days also when like Krishna Das was just starting out and would come and we would have kirtans and you know, 12, 15, 20 people in the room before long before he was famous.So, there was also the kind of India bhakti vibe that was that was brought into it.And I don't think in those days if I had been told, "Okay, now just meditate."I think I was much too restless and, you know, too young and too restless in those days too.I don't think I would have had that experience through a more of a seated practice.
So, the physicality of it was really really helped helped me to have access to certain experiences.
Christiana discusses whether yoga suited her body and how her practice eventually ended abruptly in her thirties. She describes shifting toward Tibetan Buddhism and looking back on yoga as a former chapter of her life.
Last question on that period.Did your body agree with the practice?Um I I've heard one of the outcomes of of that the sort of yoga that's being practiced at that time uh later on injuries, you know, so on, especially for people who are practicing very regularly on a dailybasis and so on.Um hips, knees that sort of thing.Um did your body agree with the practice?
It It did at in those days and I think I stopped before it didn't.And I think also I've been a little bit blessed by a body that's not naturally super limber and flexible.So, I never got to that stage of doing the incredibly advanced series that really push your body to that limit.So, I think I stayed within the realm of the safe and it agreed with me quite well.But, there was a point where there was a certain point later in my life where I just I literally stopped from one day to the next.I I stopped and I never did a shot like I just never did it again.Like karma, I don't know if it was a body or something, but somehow my karma with that practice just from one day to the next was done.
Fascinating.Could you say something about that time period?What How old were you?What was going on?
That was later.That was I think I was in my Maybe I was about 30, early 30s and I was living in Colorado.Sorry, let me think.Am I dates on life for me is not I'm not great with the the timeline, but I was living in Boulder, Colorado a bit later.Yeah, in my 30s and um I was practicing a little bit with Richard Freeman who who he teaches in a much more sort of slower systematic way, but I I would go there because I had this habit ofpracticing in the studio.I liked the Mysore style environment, and there was one morning it was cold and it was snowy and it was icy, and I was shoveling the snow off my car at like 5:30 in the morning.And and I just had this feeling like what am I doing?
And I actually turned my car off and I went back to bed.And I have never done Ashtanga yoga since.
It was just a I felt like I I reached my I just didn't want to do it anymore.I still do things with my body and yoga is a little bit, but that particular kind of phase of my life was like a chapter was just was over.So, I don't know if it was my body intelligence or karma, I don't know.I can't exactly explain, but it was it was a very palpable moment.
That's interesting.Were you beginning to become involved in other things at that time?Or Wait, was it a handoff in other words?Your MG's attentions were shifting into other things or it just was done?
I mean, a little bit and I think even before that I was already exploring a lot of other things.At when I studied with Richard Freeman, we had um we had meditation that was taught by a Tibetan Buddhist translator, who is, you know, became a friend of mine.His name is Jules Levinson, and he used to come and teach us.Richard wanted us to learn meditation, and but he he somehow felt like we should practice meditation more from the Buddhist tradition.And this was Boulder, Colorado, where, you know, there were a lot of there were a lot of Tibetan lamas that would come through.So, we we did more we would practice in the Shambhala Center and in the Tibetan environment, and I really clicked with that.I had been, you know, exposed to Tibetan Buddhism much before, but I Yeah, I would say in those years in Colorado was was when I getting much more connected with the Tibetans.
But I don't know, you know, I would always do yoga.Then yoga became more of a body practice for me, not so much my spiritual practice, but there was a moment where Yeah, it just kind of dropped off.
When you think of yoga now and say and remember it in your body, what do you do you what do you feel?
Well, I I laugh a little bit because I remember, you know, amongst my family in those times, you know, everybody was kind of I joined I was in the cult and everybody was so freaked out about yoga andI was doing all these weird things and now everybody, like all of those people are doing yoga
now, you know, everybody's doing yoga and it's it's funny to me that that kind of shift in consciousness around it.Um But you know, I actually miss it a little bit.Lately I start to I miss the physicality of it a little bit.I think I've become I Recently I've been thinking about how to go back to it in a way that's a little more balanced and integrated back in my life just purely for the the physicality of it as Iage in this stage of my life.I kind of miss it.
We've skipped ahead here, too.
Oh, we skipped ahead, yeah.
She returns to her teenage uncertainty about the future and explains how she ended up at Harvard rather than SOAS. Christiana describes her unusual undergraduate experience studying religion, her teachers, and her interest in comparative approaches.
Yeah, let's backtrack.So, you're in New York and you're 16, you're doing yoga and so on.Um I'm curious what you thought you were going to be now when you grew up sort of thing, you know, if you had that kind of idea at that time.Of course, you would go on soon thereafter to study your undergrad at Harvard, Harvard University, comparative study of religion there.So, I'd like to talk to you all about that.Um how that happened and and what it was like.But at that time when you were around 16, 15, 16, 17, so on, did you have a sense of what you wanted to do in your life?
No idea.Really, honestly, no idea.I honestly didn't know.I think when, you know, when I did decide to to study what I studied, it was more out of the realization that I could actually It suddenly clicked that you can study what I wanted to learn, cuz Inever quite realized that that was a possibility.So, it was a bit more of a default.Like, "Oh, I don't know what else to study.Oh my god, I can I can study this."I did it.I don't know.I was um I really, honestly, wasn't sure at those time.I was I would I would say I was more in the phase ofrejecting what I didn't want to do than knowing what what I did want to do.
Yeah.
And I had a thought that um when I did get to the point You know, it didn't also occur to me in my life path that not going to college was an option, but there was I had afeeling like I wanted to leave the country, and I kind of applied in secret to go to SOAS in London School of Oriental and African Studies, and um was accepted, and that didn't go down so well with myparents because I had, in parallel, applied to Harvard.And when I was accepted, and I said I'm not going to Harvard, I want to go to SOAS, you know, that was not so well received in my family.So, I, you know, I took the more acceptable accepted accepted route, but I really didn't know at that time exactly what I wanted to do.
They were objecting to that because of the relative the difference in prestige between those two institutions, I suppose.Branding as well.
Yeah, I suppose, yeah.
So, you went to Harvard?
I went to Harvard.
What was that like?
So, again, I'd say typical of my life, my experience at Harvard was probably very different than a lot of other people's experience at Harvard.One because like I said, I was doing Ashtanga yoga at 6:00 in the morning every day my freshman year.Second year I moved off campus and I moved in with a couple of friends.A friend of mine who was in a grad school and he was an Ashtanga yoga practitioner.So we set up a little Mysore yoga studio in our house and people would come over at 6:00 every morning.So I had this kind of parallel uh life at Harvard and I studied religion and the religion department is is a very quirky little department within Harvard.So I had some you know, it was very very small.The people who did it were a little bit out of the box, I think, like myself.
Teachers were a little out of the box.Um so I had a really nice I in the end I ended up really loving it, but it was not it was not the experience that I thought I was going to have and it was not the experiencethat most people have.I I had, you know, I had few times where I would have to sit in very big lecture halls and do the, you know, some courses that were but a lot of times I was sitting around a tableor I was sitting in the yard with a in a circle with, you know, studying the Bhagavad Gita with a stick of incense burning in the grass.You know, like that was that was my Harvard experience, which was a little unusual.So It It was great in the end.
Do you remember any of the teachers that made an impact on you or any of the subjects and, you know, things you were studying and so on?
Yeah, so I had a teacher named Edwin Bryant who was a Sanskritist and uh um he was one of our, you know, one of my teachers.Funny story about him, I don't know if I should say this publicly, but you know, in the academe as you know, I'm sure in academia there's teachers are not really meant to be practitioners or if they are, they'renot meant to you know, talk about this or share this, but so I remember on my he was my thesis advisor and on the last day when I was so he said I'll come to my you know, Ithink the school was closed.He said come to my house.We'll have our meeting over there and you know, when I I arrived there and I knocked on the door and he opened the door and he's like wearing a dhoti and a string and he's holding a plate of
fruit and he looked at me you know, he completely forgot that we had a meeting and he's in the middle of doing this big Krishna Puja, you know, that was kind of you know, nice experience.I had a guest teacher named um Jeffrey Kripal who wrote an interesting very interesting book and you know, he was a really interesting teacher.I had um an advisor who was a grad student who was an assistant teacher who was a Aurobindo um deep into Aurobindo studies who was he was a very interesting and unusual character.Yes, I met some yeah, interesting people at Harvard.
And how did you take to the academic side of it?You know, writing essays and reading and all that kind of stuff, exams and things.
Yeah, you know, II liked to think I was a little bit of an academic in those days and I realized I'm I'm really not an academic.I had thought that I might want to stay in academia and go for my PhD and I'm really happy that I did not do that because I don't think I would have survived.I think at the level of my undergrad in religion I could I could manage um but I'm not a scholar, you know, I'm really I had to kind of come to terms with that.I'm not a I'm not a scholar actually.I don't um I don't have that kind of mind.I didn't go deep into languages.I I have so much respect for the ones who do, but it's it's definitely not my path.So it was good if for you know, at the undergraduate level I could I could manage and the what we had to do was interesting to me and I could keep up but I think that was sort of
my limit in terms of academia.
What's the premise of the comparative study of religion undergraduate course at Harvard?What what was the thrust of it?
Actually, you know, I wouldn't say it was as comparative as the word sounds because you choose your specialties and then you have to select um there's not really anything that pulls it all together.And actually what I found really interesting was that comparisons were quite um they seem to be quite looked upon down upon because I was quite interested in comparing things.I was interested in studying different things.I wanted to look at, you know, I ended up studying Kashmir Shaivism and and I was, you know, and I was really interested to how, you know, the Buddhism and Hindu tradi- Indian traditions.I was really interested in looking at comparisons and that was really not well received and not it was quite looked down upon.So I actually think the name is quite funny, comparative world religions, because you're not really encouraged to compare anything or to look at how things are similar or or different.
It's really you are encouraged to to focus.So yeah, that's that's interesting.
And what did you focus on?
So I had, you know, Indian studies so Buddhism and Hinduism and I ended up writing on Kashmir Shaivism.Feels like another life, really.
Christiana recounts a life-changing Buddhist studies program in Bodh Gaya during college. She describes the daily routine, the three yanas, and how Tibetan Buddhism began to feel more compelling than the Zen and Indian traditions she had first encountered.
Don't don't quiz me.
Yeah, that's so interesting.Um well, and at that time
of the most Sorry to interrupt.One of the most, I would say, interesting things I did in those Harvard years was in in my junior year I went to India and I participated in a program that was run through Antioch uh university and itwas a Buddhist studies program in India where we lived in uh Bodh Gaya for 3 months.And that was a really kind of a life-changing experience for me.Are you familiar with that program?
I've heard of it, yeah.I've heard of it.Quite a number of people went through that who eventually made it their whole life, right?If I'm thinking of the right program.
Probably, yeah.I think it changed a lot of people's lives.
Justin von Bujdos, didn't he go there?
He did it, yeah.
Yeah.I think that's you know, that's somebody that immediately comes to mind.In fact, weren't you classmates or uh
No, he was I think he was there maybe one or two years before me.And then also Miles Neal, who's a friend of mine, was there.We were all slightly We had a conversation once on a on the internet about this, but we were all I think different years, but um similar times.Similar times in that it was in the years before before cell phones.Which was really a blessing for a program like that.
What do you mean by that?
Well, so actually last year we had a little bit I I lost touch with almost everybody in that program, and last year we had a reunion here at Pearland Farms.Kind of reconnected.One of my classmates re- found all of us and started, you know, organizing little bit Zoom calls to reconnect, and I said, "Well, let's meet in" They were looking for a place to meet in person, so I said,"Come to Pearland Farms."and so a few of them came here and we had a bit of a reunion, and we were just, you know, kind of reminiscing, and one of the things that I really remember is that we were offline, youknow?The program still is going, but if you go now, and you go there with your phone, and your social media, and it's a completely different experience for a group of 19-year-olds who go there and live in a monastery,
and completely completely immerse ourselves in in the environment, and in the culture, and in the studies, and the practice.I mean, it's a very, very practice-focused meditation-focused program, and it was, yeah, in a way it's like ordaining, or becoming a monk for a for a few months of your life having that kind of experience.It was incredible.
What was the daily routine in in in that program in your year and in your 3 months and what sort of meditations did you explore?
So it's a it's basically a survey of the three yanas.So you have we had the person and teachers for about a month and then we had a Japanese Zen teacher and then we had Tibetan teachers.So we went through the the three yanas and in the middle there was some academia.We had courses but basically we would wake up very early.I don't remember what time we had guided meditation and then we would have breakfast and then we would have class for a few hours.Um, you know, philosophy and different types of classes that we would have in language and then in the afternoon we would walk to the to the stupa, the Mahabodhi Stupa and in Bodh Gaya and we would have teachingsover there.We would come back and we would have meditation again and we would have um a few retreats like on the weekends.
Some each each segment we would have a retreat where our teachers would you know guide us for a few days of intensive practice and then at the end you could choose um a place to go and travel anddo your own sort of personal exploration.So it was it was the first time I encountered Tibetan teachers and had a little bit of an overview of you know, the the Buddhist path and the practices and the realizing how how different it is cuz untilthen I was I think I was really drawn to India because I was really connected with the devotional element.I really and and the just the vibes, you know, I like the the colors and the music and the I was really really connected to the the sort of the more of the feeling of India and Buddhism forme was sort of sitting against a next you know, looking at a white wall.
That was what I had been exposed to.You know, Zen centers and and that kind of thing and it didn't quite I don't know.I never it didn't quite inspire me in the same way.So, when I met the Tibetans, there was like a little bit like, "Oh, you can have
color and teachings and the the it kind of really Yeah, that was very illuminating for me.
So, of the three Yanas or I suppose I mean Tibetan Buddhism isn't just the third, is it?But of the three of the three phases of that program, it was the third Tibetan phase that you most uh gelled with.
For sure.For sure.You know, I appreciated all of them.I had amazing We had amazing teachers.I appreciated all of them, but again, I was you know, I was still doing Ashtanga yoga in those days.Actually, I was teaching Ashtanga yoga to the to my classmates there every day and I think I just I had I would get so frustrated with the walk you know, we're walking walking or you know, the so I'mlike I'm the person to get Everything was just so slow.Everything was just too slow for me.You know, I really had a a little bit of a hard time.I I I appreciated it, but I just didn't feel quite like the practice that I could do and then as soon as the Tibetan teachers arrived, it was like, "Oh, this is was very unusual."And I started to feel more like
you know, it wasn't just a discipline.There was there were I I started to feel really the the path and the why and the reasons why why you do it and Yeah, so I felt I was very very interested.Very curious, I should say.
What was the sense of the path and the why that you were beginning to discover?
You know, the like for example, the first the very very first day we had a teaching on in the Vajrayana realm.I think it was the first day we were guided through a meditation where you had to imagine, you know, that you're on a airplane with everybody you love and and you know, and like a deep dive into talkingabout impermanence.And this feeling of that there is possibility of you know, liberation.I I felt like I felt like in the other teachings that the practices that I was receiving and I felt like we were learning techniques, but I didn't always feel so I think yoga I liked because it mademe feel good.But then when I would do other techniques like Vipassanā meditation, it was kind of kind of a little bit of a painful experience actually.I know this is a technique and and many people have incredibly profound experiences doing Vipassanā meditation and doing Goenka retreats, but for me personally, I just felt like it was quite painful and I didn't have any type of
really breakthrough experiences through that practice.So I just thought, why do I have to
you know, why do I have to sit on my cushion for 14 hours a day?But when I started to kind of encounter the Vajrayana teachings and and really think about you know, finding freedom, you know, freedom from suffering and benefiting other beings and um you know, it wasn't all completely clear, but Istarted to feel like there was a reason for it.And that that got me curious.
The conversation turns to spiritual experiences, and Christiana explains that hers have been gradual rather than dramatic. She connects this to both temperament and Tibetan medical ideas about constitution, while reflecting on how yoga and practice have shaped her mind and life.
Speaking of breakthrough experiences, of course, these kinds of I suppose you could say peak experiences or moments of insight, epiphanies are associated with the spiritual path.Obviously.Um had you been having them by this point?
Um maybe many ones, but not I would I would say no.No.
You know, again, it's I think in the same way that I was blessed with a little bit of a stiff body that saved me from hurting myself in Ashtanga yoga, I think I've also been let's say blessed orcursed with a little bit of a stiff or a dense mind.You know, I was never one of those people that would just sit down and have ecstatic opening experiences.So I've been my experiences have been more subtle and more gradual.And I don't know if that's a blessing or a curse or or what, but that's just how I'm I'm built.I was I was not really running after very ecstatic type experiences.That's not what I I didn't have a lot of access to that type of experience.
Has that changed over your life or has that remained constant?
That's not changed.That's not changed.That's why it's been interesting too when I think about, you know, it's interesting to look back over time and look at more subtle shifts rather than Yeah, there definitely you know, there's moments that I would say have stoodout as being um more impactful and you know, more life-changing and breakthroughs on some level, but a lot of it has been I would say more subtle for me.
You know, we'll get to this of course, but you have training in Tibetan, Chinese medical and spiritual systems and not not and and other things too.Would you say then what you're describing is a constitutional thing?I know in those systems they're quite fond of characterizing people by sort of type of typologies often some sort of elemental mix or so.Would you say that you're that what you've described here this subtle not so many peak experiences if any at all is that constitutional?Is that karmic?
I think it's I think it's both actually.I do think it's partly constitutional.I believe that and partly karmic.I do.I think constitutional definitely.
In what sense?Could you explain that a little bit with in terms of the systems that you learned?
Well, you know, in like in terms of Sowa Rigpa Tibetan medicine you have the wind and the bile and the phlegm.So, the this the phlegm the the more of a slow and steady type of of constitution a little bit thicker, a little more dense, you know, um like that type of constitution.So, I I have Yeah, I think I have a bit of that quite a enough of that.UmBut also I'm sure it's karmic, too.
Of course.Those kinds of constitutions are you know, they have traits associated with them, right?And pros and cons.And one of the I suppose pros if you want of the backen type is um solid, grounded, stable kind of pacific type.But it can also be a sort of stagnant
Yeah.
uh dep- depressive sort of uh type.Um But then again, you're doing all this yoga and you're you're you're moving that constitution with those kinds of vigorous physical practices and and so on.So I mean, do you do you relate quite strongly to that that backen uh typology with its negative points, too?
I I mean, I think I have a healthy dose of lung, too.I have plenty of wind.I traveled a lot.I move a lot.I So I have, you know, even without yoga pra- I think yoga practice was a was a way that I consciously or unconsciously tried to move that energy so I wouldn't get stuck into a certain type of situation.But later in my life, I started to also travel a lot and traveling and moving.So I have a busy I have a mind that you know moves a lot.I'm not I don't have that pure type of backen constitution.But I I'd say I'm about I've quite a mix of of the two, which creates sometimes, you know, a bit of an interesting inner inner dynamic, you know.Lots of ideas, lots of movement, lots of But then sometimes the, you know the backen can bring a bit of laziness and a bit of slowness.
Um But you know, in terms of spiritual experience, I don't know.It would be interesting to talk to other people about that.But what I I've been thinking about something.So in all the, you know, different people I meet, you know, I meet all kinds of kind of clairvoyant type people and, you know, this kind of um people who straight away, you know, they sit down for 5minutes and they have all the visions and the colors and and all this kind of thing, you know, and I've like I said, I've never really been one of those people, but I what I feel is more likean intuitive quality that comes through time in the sense of you know, like I ask myself sometimes, are clairvoyant people clairvoyant or are they very intuitive?You know, I don't know cuz I've never had that experience of of really having that type of experience, but I can see through you know, however time, how it's an experience, a type of you know, a a type
of intuitive quality that comes where you start to maybe see through people a little bit or or understand situations in ways you didn't before and you know, that's a different type of of I don't want to I don'twant to say progress, but a diff- a different type of evolution on the path.To say I also had a little moment along my path where not for very long, but a little moment of, you know, exploring plant medicines and these things and so to have you know, I've had access to differenttypes of experiences.So, I you know, I'm familiar with I'm familiar with with those kind of experiences, but I'm not that interest- like I'm I'm interested in seeing how people change over time, seeing how the path changes people, seeing how thepath changes me and trying to be really honest about that and observing and seeing you know, like do the teachings change the way you think about things, the way you relate to people, the way you live your life,
like the way you encounter challenges, the way you encounter impermanence, like that's that's for me what I'm very interested in more than the kind of experience.
As you look back, this is a big question, but as you look back at the different phases of your life we will get back we will go back to where we left off and to in the anti-aging program.What sort of changes have you noticed?Uh the I mean the changes that you value.
I think um adaptability you know, flexibility
more of more empathy more kindness, more more understanding, more um recognition of how different people other people think and the sort of the complexity and diversity of the human mind.These kind of simple things.Patience, I'm not quite patient so I'm struggle with a little bit.But you know I think adaptability has adaptability may be come later.I think working with really meeting Dr.Nita and working with him has has really helped a lot on that level to try to um yeah, learn how to flow more with different situations.
How so?
Well you know, um yeah, that when I met Dr.Nita we we just started we started Sky Press, we started different projects and things change all the time.You know, everything that has been in my time and like I said I'm only part of a you know, a small part of all of Dr.Nita's much larger activities, but everything has been completely spontaneous and almost almost completely unplanned, you know.And it's been beautiful cuz a lot of a lot of what I have done and what I have supported has really been through a a moment, an idea, and a trust, and a willingness to to try something andthen follow up after with trying to put the systems in place to actually make that make that inspiration work.And it's it really helped me to to not get so stuck in details.To not get so um
Yeah, not not to have feel the obstacle of like, "Oh, but that doesn't make any sense."You know, just to say like, "Well, actually like let's try."And and not to be too cautious, you know, that's that's the anti the back end that phlegm constitution maybe want to be a little cautious or take your time, but that kind of feeling of like all the reallytrusting in the possibility and trusting in the in the blessings and and allowing things to kind of flow forth.And then if it doesn't work, not to feel discouraged but to just change direction or, you know, learn how to flow a little bit more with that kind of that kind of wind energy.So, that's been a like very educational experience for me.
And do you think that spontaneous creativity that you're describing is that uh in Dr.Nida would you say that's a spiritual quality or is it a constitutional quality?
I think it's a spiritual quality and I also think it's a it's connected with his upbringing as a nomad, you know.He moves with the weather.Like he he literally moves and lives in yurts without walls.And so, it's it's very different.Like I had a experience when I went to Amdo recently and this is just a really small anecdote, but it it stuck in my mind where I was in Amdo visiting his home place.I've met different members of his family and friends and cousins and extended family.And there was this moment where you know, they were on top of the hill and they were pushing each other down the hill and you know, rolling like down the hill and just having the time of their lives.And I just I had this moment of thinking about my own upbringing in New York City, you know.
Going to school on time and the you know, and and Dr.Nida has even said the first time he had to sleep in a in a building outside of a yurt, you know, he felt like the walls were crushing down on him cuz that feeling of being in that roundnessand openness of of the yurt in the the lack of boundaries is is that's part of his nature.So, I think it has a lot to do with that type of upbringing.I don't know enough other people that were raised like that to know if they all have that type of quality, but I think it has a lot to do with that on top of, you know, the spiritual quality.
Christiana traces the years after college through travel, relationships, and further Tibetan study. She explains why she chose Chinese medicine school over Naropa and how her identification with Buddhism emerged gradually rather than through a formal conversion.
Interesting, yeah.So, what happened after Antioch?
So,
and Harvard?
After Antioch, I traveled in India and I met my now ex-husband.So, I hadperiod of, you know, kind of long-term relationship, which I'm which I'm no longer in, but that was quite um you know, a big part of my life and movement and and travel.Um I went to I think of the timeline.
What what the key points?Um I decided to go back to Chinese medicine school.Moved to Well, no, let's see.Moved to France for a little bit, lived in Europe, moved back to America, lived in Colorado, studied with uh some Tibetan teachers there, got, you know, more into the Tibetan Buddha Dharma and then moved to Portland, Oregon andyou know, the question of like you asked me at the beginning, what did you want to be when you grow up?I would say this was still a question in my mind, you know, what do you want to when you're into these type of traditions, there's not a lot of really options besides going into academia or going into, youknow, so I used to teach yoga and do different different things, had some little businesses, but there was always this question of what is the most type of What can you do with your material life that feels of
the most aligned to that type of path and um I decided to go to Chinese medicine school.I didn't really know much about Tibetan medicine at the time.I had encountered it very very you know, adjacently.I never really even though I'd been to Nepal and traveled a bit, I wasn't really familiar with Sowa Rigpa Tibetan medicine, but I knew a lot of acupuncturists and people who were in Chinese medicine and I felt likemaybe that was the way that I could be beneficial and there's do something that felt the most aligned to what my, you know, my spiritual interests were.So, I decided to go to Chinese medicine school and it was in my very first year, maybe even my very first trimester of that school when I met um Dr.Nida, so and he said, "Stay in school."You know, cuz I was like, "Oh my god, like Tibetan medicine, maybe I should have studied Tibetan medicine.
It's even more aligned."And he said, "No, no, no.You know, stay on track."So, that was kind of the beginning of a of another phase of my life.
Which uh Tibetan teachers were you studying with in Colorado?
In Colorado, I was studying with um Zeegar Kongtrul Rinpoche and also with Anyen Rinpoche who was a lesser-known uh Tibetan lama from Amdo who who I met and offered you know, he needed a place to teach, so Ioffered him my home and he would come every Sunday to our house and and give teachings for for all the years that I lived there.And he also taught me a lot of language.I I studied Tibetan with him and but then more formally I was studying with uh Zeegar Kongtrul Rinpoche.And parallel to that, I was I would say not studying, but in I would go to Portland, Oregon also and I was learning um Chad practice from Lama Wangdu Rinpoche.So those were Yeah, those were my I considered going to Naropa University and but I I actually decided not to pursue that and was studying mostly with Khenpo Rinpoche.
Why did you decide against Naropa?
Because I felt like everything I was learning in the Dharma center was what I had hoped to learn in the in the university, you know?Uh that's what I I wanted to study Dharma really is what I wanted to do, so I studied Dharma in the Dharma center.
And by then you were a Buddhist.
Yes.
When did that happen?When did that identification with Buddhism and conversion occur?
Well, I wouldn't I don't think I had a formal moment of conversion, but I think on the Antioch program definitely on the Antioch program and especially when I went to Nepal at the at the end of the programand I studied with Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche who um you know, that that was a moment where I started to feel very identified with Tibetan Buddhism.But not like a formal conversion.
Do you remember the first time you described yourself as a Buddhist to somebody?
I don't know if I ever really you know, I I don't really say it that often.I say you know, it's funny I don't love identifications, so I don't really say I'm a if somebody asks, I'll say yes, but I don't really say like I am a Buddhist.I
feel I'm I Yeah, I don't say it that often.
What do you think of yourself as?
Seeker.I would say I'm a seeker.I consider myself someone on the path.I could say I'm a Buddhist practitioner, although I'm not a very good practitioner, so I don't even like really that identification to say I'm a practitioner cuz then well what practices do you do and you know I'm aI'm a I don't know.I'm a seeker.Buddhist seeker, I would say.
She describes beginning Chinese medical studies in Portland and attending a mantra healing workshop with Dr. Nida. Christiana recalls the immediate sense of connection that made him feel like a teacher, even before she fully understood his role.
Do you remember what year you began your Chinese medical studies and met Dr.Nida?And um I just asked you off the record if this is around the time or if it was before your your plant medicine, you said sort of parallel track.So I wonder if you might talk a bit about that whole period that you described it moments ago as the next chapter in your life.
This was like a 2012.I think it was 2012.I had moved to Portland about a year before.I was feeling you know, this thing of like are you a Buddhist, are you not a Buddhist?Like I I've always I and maybe this is constitutional too.Maybe this is the two parts of my constitution that are always a little bit like on the one hand I'm a very good student and I like institutions and I feel really home in institutions.At the other hand, I don't like so much institu- institutions and to feel very labeled and and to be kind of stuck in boxes.I have There's a little always been a part of me that rebels against that a little bit.So it's it's a dual thing.I feel very at home in in you know, and I'm quite on some level quite obedient and I follow the rules and I but but there's there's always a feeling of like seeking freedom and not wanting to feel
like you have to there's only one way to do things and you have to always follow the rules.And so so that's I think a theme in my life and and also a theme in my you know, connection to the to the Buddha Dharma and so plant medicine that would plant medicine was not something that Iwas actually pursuing.That was a little bit a symptom of my ex-marriage and and sort of tagging along to something for a little while and then getting interested myself.So, having those experiences when I met Dr.Nida, he said, "What are you taking?"That was one of the first things he said to me.And he said, "You should stop."That was basically I actually remember that moment where um you know, I was exploring a little bit.And again, this was a a short a short chapter of my life, but it was it was a good chapter, I would say in in getting me a little bit out of the box for certain ways of thinking.
And then also it was good, I think, that it was a short-lived chapter.So, yeah, I met Dr.Nida.It was a period of a lot of questions in my life and finding direction andtrying things and you know also being in a relationship, a marriage that was challenging.And so, there was always a feeling of like, you know, there was always that thing of feeling of wanting to break out of something but not knowing exactly what it was I was trying to break out of.And so, experimenting a little bit with different things and going to Chinese medicine school was my way of really trying to find a very clear direction and to make a commitment.And there was a kid in my class who said to me really interesting because he was this guy kind of appeared he was only there for I learned later he was like a um kind of exchange student.
He was only there temporarily, but he said, "Oh, there's this Tibetan doctor that's in town and you know, I heard you're interested in Tibetan Buddhism.Maybe you Do you want to come to the workshop?"And I said, "Sure."So, I went to this uh mantra healing workshop with Dr.Nida in 2012.Didn't know anything about Tibetan medicine.Didn't have any never heard of Dr.Nida.Didn't have any expectation other than just to you know, learn something about Tibetan medicine and then I went to the workshop and it was a workshop on mantra healing and at the end of the workshop he gave usthis kind of assignment, you know, you have to do 50,000 mantras and this one and 100,000 mantras of that one and I remember the kid that or the kid, I mean he wasn't a kid but young student whohad recommended the teaching was kind of like really not interested.
He said, "I don't have time to do the mantras."And I kind of like thought it was a little, you know, he was a little bit not that interested in the in the workshop and I was well, thank you for bringing me cuz I really for me itwas really, really um amazing and I I was just curious, you know, who is this person?It was very relaxed, very small group.Super, you know, no protocol, no really discussion of Dharma or anything.It was just a you know, Tibetan doctor who was in town sharing some mantra healing and I was thought, "Ooh, this is, you know, I was very interested."So, that was my, you know, my first meeting with Dr.Nida.And then I went back and I learned Nejang yoga and learned a few things and I had this feeling like well, he's not a teacher.
I mean, when I use the word teacher again because I had been in these sort of very formal type of Dharma type environments and temples where I thought the teacher had to sit on a throne.You know, that was what I thought.So, I said, "Well, he's not like a teacher but somehow he kind of feels like a teacher or have a feeling of the feeling of meeting a teacher of that kind of connection of and I just left thatwhere it is.I didn't really ask questions.I didn't really inquire as to whether, you know, what his role was as a Dharma teacher.I didn't I just kind of left it there.It was sort of a little bit of a curiosity of feeling like, "Oh, I feel like I in a way I have a feeling like I met a teacher, my teacher, but and that was it.
So, that was kind of the beginning.
Christiana explains how her relationship with Dr. Nida deepened through organizing classes and following spontaneous opportunities. She recounts leaving school, traveling through Tibet and Bali, and receiving guidance about naming and shaping her future center.
Well, what happened next?
What happened next is um he came back to Portland a few times and um in those days, I think a little different now, but in those days, you know, before this all the online education and you know, hundredsof people online, Dr.Nida would travel around and do small groups and he would I think his way is when he sees somebody who's interested in something, he just kind of gives you something to do.Like, so oh, you like why don't you you're in Portland, why don't you organize a uh class or have a meditation or, you know okay, so I started to kind of open my home up to organize some classesand some groups.UmAfter 2 years of and again, I was still married at the time after after 2 years and I was married to somebody who was very, very restless and really didn't like to stay in one place and wanted to
leave America and I was quite deep into my Chinese medicine at that time and I said I'm really, you know, I really wanted to study up, I was very inspired and he wanted to leave the country and youknow, Dr.Nida somehow got involved in that conversation.He said, "No, you have to finish your school.You have to finish your school."And then a lot of discussion and fighting and marital issues and in the end I decided to take a year off with the intention to come back to Chinese medicine school and I went to Asia.Went to Tibet and there was a big Sheetro kind of Bardo ceremony happening that Dr.Nida was um
helping to facilitate in the Rebkong area.I went there and everything from that moment was kind of like just following the events.I met a guy I really to continue to study Chinese medicine.I was determined to get my license and I met a guy at that sheetro who said, "Oh, you know, there's this acupuncturist in Bali, Indonesia who will accept students and I went to Bali and I called him upand became his kind of you know, apprentice for a little while.It was supposed to be short-lived and when I got there, a friend of mine said, "Oh, I have this friend who needs somebody to house sit."Turned out to be the only Tibetan in Bali, I think, who happened to be a Tibetan akpa who was living in Bali
with his wife and they had to go back to Nepal.I said, "Can you watch my house for 2 weeks?"I said, "Sure."And then after 2 weeks, we can't come back.Can you Can you watch the house for another month?Sure.And ended up staying there for like 9 months in that house and, you know, practicing at the acupuncture center and doing retreat.I I went to Nepal for our first Sorig conference.So, you know, on the side I would kind of meet Dr.Nida and do some, you know, receive teachings when I could.And then I
was learning a little bit of Qigong and I There was a guy in the class who said, "I just been come back from China and I studied with this Daoist master and he's about He's just starting a Daoistmedicine class."And I had my China visa in my passport cuz I had just come from Tibet and I just went to that place and I went up into this like very, very unusual You know, it was all like
It was just a very un- very unique teacher in a very unusual setting that you would never in a million years find had I not, you know, just been in that Qigong class at the moment.So, I went and I studied Qigong and not Qigong, sorry, medicine Daoist medicine, like a crash course in all the techniques of Taoist medicine in this very, very remote temple up in the mountains and I stayed there forabout 6 weeks.And came back to Bali and was like kind of really falling in love with the culture there.Totally forgot about America.I didn't want to go back to be honest, you know.And um I I didn't know Dr.Nida that well at the time, but I knew he was around.He was giving teachings in Singapore and Malaysia umAnd you know, I said, "Can you come to Can you come to Bali?
Like do you have like a day, you know, a couple of days?"I looked at his schedule.I said, "It looks like you have two free days.Can you come and see if this would be like a good place to maybe for me to stay.Maybe I could, you know, start my acupuncture practice here, open a little center and and he came and he stayed I think I think just one night and said, um "Let's go to the Saraswati Temple in in Ubud."And so we went to visit the Saraswati Temple.Beautiful little Hindu Temple.Nobody was there.And then he left and then I went back to that temple like five times and the doors were always closed like and I started to ask around, "When is this temple open?"And it's like, "It's almost never open actually.They only open on certain days."
So it happened to be open on that day and um And so he said, "If you stay in Bali, you should call your center Yangchenma."Which is the Tibetan name of Saraswati.He said, "Because if you stay in Bali, you have to respect their culture.It wouldn't be right to come there and start like a Yutok Sann, you know, you should do something that really connects with their culture.So but you also want to connect it to to Tibetan culture, so you should call it Yangchenma and um out of respect for for Saraswati.So, that was my kind of plan and you know, in the end I didn't stay.I came back, but there was this kind of um yeah, connection in that place that was really profound for me and helped kind of guide other decisions and and plans that were made.
That was 2015.
That was 2015, yeah.
The host asks why she involved Dr. Nida in major life decisions, and Christiana reflects on Dharma culture, insecurity, and a difficult marriage. She describes how her reliance on external guidance gradually gave way to greater self-trust.
You know, I'm curious um you said you knew Dr.Nida not that well at the time.If I understood you correctly.A- and yet you invited him to travel presumably internationally to visit you in Bali to sort of s- speak into your life.Uh h- how did that happen?I don't imagine m- many people would have would have thought to do that.And I don't imagine many people would have received a yes if they'd put such a request across uh to a teacher, I mean, in general.
Yeah, I mean, when I say I didn't know him that well, I had you know, by that point I had studied with him quite a bit um Oh, yeah.I don't know.That's one of those I think that's again, that's how everything that I have do and have done that is connected with Dr.Nida's work has come about from that type of feeling of just being very spontaneous and you know, yeah, it was like a kind of a shot in the dark.I said, I see two days on your schedule, it's right there.I'll buy you a ticket, you know, you can come and stay with us.I was you know, married at the time.And he said, I've never been to Bali.I said, okay.And contacted the Singapore organizer.I contacted the Malaysian organizer.I said, I'm really sorry, but you know, I'll buy the ticket.
Can he can he come and you know, and he came.So, that was Yeah, I think a lot ofI don't know.Yeah.A lot of things happened that way.From but I think it was really again like a kind of a feeling of just a kind of a deep feeling of trust and connection and wanting his feedback, feeling like it would be important to have his feedbackon on on something like that even though yeah, it was quite the beginning of my journey with his, you know, with his work and his organization.Dr.Nida travels a lot and he inspires and empowers a lot of people to do things and then just watches if some people it clicks and some people it it doesn't, you know, but I've watched him in a lotof environments, you know, he kind of he he has a way of seeing people's potential or he's like, "Oh, maybe it would be good to do this."
And then some people they say, "Okay, I'll try it."And some people don't and you know, that's just kind of I think his a little bit his nature to encourage people.Maybe people who seem a little directionless.
Like what, you know, and he'll say, "How about this?"Or, you know, "Here, have a little project.This could this would be beneficial."And and just, you know, he does that a lot and some people take the opportunity and some people don't.So, I was in a phase where I was very open to that type of direction.
Yeah, that's really interesting.You know, uh there is a culture in I'm thinking in particular of convert communities, Tibetan Buddhist communities like in America, for example.Um I'm not saying only there, but of getting advice from the Lama, the teacher, about life decisions.Should I take this job?Should I marry this person?Should I move here or there?You know.What color should I paint my house?Things like that, you know.Um is that was that impulse to think to involve Dr.Nida at that sort of very very ripe time of change in your in your life.Was that impulse influenced by the Dharma culture that you've been immersing in in the States or uh was was that culture not there and it's something that's sort of bubbled up in you?Was it a natural response to the special connection you were feeling with Dr.
Nida that you hadn't felt in other contexts?Do you Do you see what I'm trying to drive at here?
Yeah, yeah, of course.I mean, I get what you're saying exactly.So, yes, maybe partly because of that culture, partly because of the feeling of connection, and partly because of out of my own maybe insecurity at that time and looking for And and and again, I I don't want toThis is not about my marriage, but I was in a relationship that was very overbearing where I always where I felt like someone was always kind of telling me what to do.So, I had this maybe habit of seeking uh advice from others and maybe looking for some advice that was stronger than that one, you know?I mean, this is is a very good question because this has been a very big process of, you know, evolution in my path where I don't anymore actually I don't do that, you know?I don't ask for what color I should paint the walls and and what color, you know?
I really don't.It's been a process of, I would say, receiving the kind of empowerment and and trust from the teacher, but then especially in these last few years learning how to then not always rely on that and not and notseek it and begin to cultivate more trust in myself.But I would say in those in those times, I think it was a combination of, yeah, the culture of, you know, you have to you know, follow the advice and get the divination and blah blah blah blah blahand then and then, you know, my own insecurity and then also a genuine feeling of really deep connection and really feeling like this was kind of, you know, that working with him and being part of his organization andSogyal Rinpoche was was a was really genuinely my life path.So, I'd say all of those three things together.
I don't know which was you know, which was stronger, but a combination.
Christiana explains how practical responsibilities in shared projects forced her to become more independent. She reflects on the challenges of mixing spiritual, professional, and domestic life within a Dharma center, and why role separation became important.
That's very interesting.I wonder if you might say something more about this this arc that you've described there of feeling greater empowerment and able to rely on your own guidance and so on.Is that How did that come about?
Um I think it came about from
You know, there was a period when when I started to work with Dr.Nida when we started publishing the books especially where I would organize book tours and you know, we would travel a lot together on book tours.So, we had a lot of time together and ask a lot of questions and and then, you know, in establishing this place Pureland Farms, there was a lot of like I had a lot more responsibility here to totake after this place and then Dr.Nida, I think especially with after the COVID pandemic and going online became like very very very um busy and
you know, I think when you when you I'm going to say work with, but when you in a way when you work with I think there's complexity in mixing spiritual and other types of relationships, professional relationships or youknow, when you like when you're in a center, for example, I think what a lot of times when people have the idea to oh, I want to have a Dharma center or start a Dharma center,
you know, the intention is always to be in the Dharma, right?But the reality is like as soon as there's a Dharma center, there's everything that goes with it.It's you know, there's plumbing, there's electricity, there's there's just every you know, all the mundane that goes into having to you know, support a physical place which and then when that gets mixed in with spirituality and art likeit's there's all kinds of I think potential for you know, kind of like misunderstanding and miscommunication and you know, you're dealing with people and you're dealing with logistics.And so that that's a point I think in my life where that early year type of kind of very natural like like yes, let's do it, you know, that kind of got a little tainted by the practicalities ofof having to you know, deal with like a physical place and then there start to be like yes, but what about what about the plumbing?
What about the
neighbors or what about the you know, so these type of like kind of ordinary type situations I think just naturally got me to having to take a little bit more responsibility for myself and my choices and and andand not you know, you don't have to ask advice and permission for every everything that you know, you have to learn for yourself.So it's it's been a growing it's been a growing process and I think that also in the process of really um you know, trying to really preserve that trust and connection there became a point where actually I didn'twant to mix all these things together in that type of I just don't want to have that you know, I don't want to it was a phase in my life where that kind of direction really helped me immensely.Like I have so much gratitude for like just kind of taking my life and saying like hey, you can do that.
No, you can do this.Like actually kind of seeing my potential in some way and saying like kind of giving permission and giving and me kind of really needing that to the point where I have to really learn how to take that responsibilityfor myself a little bit more.So it's a it's a it's a process, I would say.An ongoing process.
Yeah, something you said there is very interesting.That one of the motives for taking responsibility for more of the logistical, operational, day-to-day kind of decisions that a lot of people do take to their lamas uh in you know, don't they?In in convert communities, it seems.Um was so that when you were with your teacher teacher, Dondrub Nyingrod, um you could talk about other things and not be encumbered by the ever-growing logistical uh issues that arose from your collaboration with him in ever moreprojects.
Uh I mean, it in part, you know, and that also has been able to happen because our team has grown and there's been a lot of people who have, you know, gotten involved, who are competent, who can takeover a lot of the some of the logistical stuff that I was doing before, but I realized that um you know, there are
like Hm, how should I say?Like I I thought there was a while where I thought it was healthy that everything is kind of like mixed together, you know, in in a like integrated the integration of like this is my home and it's theDharma center and you know, my spiritual teacher is all the also the person that I work with to make you know, so my professional life is you know, like there was a feeling of like total integration in thatsituation which, you know, could be healthy but also a potential for everything getting mixed together.So, at at this point then now there was a part of like actually you know, because I also realized, you know, in my own spiritual path, likewhen you go to teachings because you're organizing the teachings, it's different than when you go to teachings because you choose to go to a teaching.
And so, I start to kind of like you know, and we've talked about this, you know, openly, like there's a time maybe so certain things should be kept apart.And maybe there's times when I can just show up as a student and not be and and be able to appreciate that connection in a different way than if I have to be the one on the zoom oryou know, so it's this is a if I'm not articulating this clearly it's because it's kind of a work in progress, I would say.It's a it's a it's a developing kind of process.But, you know, like when you run a retreat center, suddenly you don't enjoy the retreat center in the way that a guest returns a retreat center.You don't do retreat in the way that it's it's a different type of relationship.So, in order to sort of kind of preserve and reconnect with the original motivation behind all those things, there's there's a process of having to separate out certain things and also having to balance out my life with, you
know, other activities and, you know, other social life, you know, because when all your friends are your sangha and all your friends are the people you work with and your teachers, you know, and and that's all and that'salso your home, you know, it it it's is in a way it's very beautiful, but it also has potential for, I think for miscommunications and and mix-ups.I think it's important to have role separation between people who work in the organization and when everybody who works in the organization is there because they're a student, a Dharma student, then, you know, that's beautiful, but then alsosometimes things don't get done the way the way they should or sometimes there's misunderstandings or there's a lot of all kinds of projections and, you know, blah blah blah.
I bumped into an old friend of mine from when I used to live in Colorado and he he was a monk at Naropa University and hadn't seen him for a long time and he said, "Oh, you used tojust read all the time and talk about philosophy."And I had to think back and I was like, "Really?"I said, "That's true, you know."
I used to just like read all the time and talk about philosophy.You know, now I talk about like wall paint and you know, plumbing.It's a different it's a different reality.
But, I feel also that's part of my, you know, that is part of my path to be able to to be able to really um I I have to convert in my mind that this like the work thatI do to really see it as a as a kind of an offering to the community and and that that's that the merit of creating something that is really can be of benefit to people that maybe my relationshipto the teachings have shifted or the relationship to my own practice and to my own meditation has shifted but there's this kind of um supporting just being you know, being one of many people who support something that canhelp to benefit other people and that makes me feel you know, a lot of fulfillment from that.
Yeah, certainly from a Mahayana point of view.What you're doing is you know, arguably just as good as whatever 2 hours of Vipassana every morning or something.Right?
Yeah, I don't know.We'll see.
You're stacking up your merit.
I hope so.We'll see.
A stack of sonam, a mountain.
Hopefully.It's been a really beautiful learning process and I think part of what I what I love is that when you or what I appreciate is that in ordinary circumstances, maybe it's a little bit like having children where whenyou have kids, you know, you always you always show up for the kids but in this situation when you can't really if ever there's a thought like oh, I like to take a break or maybe I want tomove or you know, any any feeling of like wanting to change direction there's always the you you you come back because this is the center that you I mean, it's interesting this word center as like a Dharma center.It is as like a mandala and people actually gravitate that and then there's a responsibility to have it actually support the support the cause.It's totally different than when you make a decision to go on a personal journey to I want to go to India and travel and and study and go to you know, go to an ashram and then when you're
done, you leave.Like here, you don't it's it is the center and it's it's a big it's a responsibility.So, it's kind of beautiful because then you see people that you might normally not notice or maybe you don't you know, you your relationships evolve over time because people come back and they grow and they have their processand then you you get to watch like um yeah, you get to be it's a little bit like a family, I guess.You're always kind of there for each other.
The discussion focuses on Christiana's relationship with Dr. Nida as a heart teacher and the complexities of guru-disciple dynamics. She contrasts formal Tibetan protocols with her own more intimate, evolving relationship and emphasizes learning from life itself.
I'm going to ask you about all the various initiatives and organizations you've founded in a moment.But, there is one subject I I mean we'll never get to all the questions I have.So, there's one subject that I would like to ask you about before we do that final bit.And we've sort of been edging around it anyway, which is the guru-disciple relationship, so central to Tibetan Buddhism, especially Vajrayana and so on.And um as you've you've described you've had various different teachers, but it seems that Dr.Nida has really been your what do they call heart teacher, right?
Mhm.
Yeah.And um I wonder if you have any thoughts on that.Any reflections on the guru-disciple dimension of your relationship with Dr.Nida.
I have a lot of thoughts on it.I do.Um it's very different when you like I said, when you relate to a llama who's sitting on a throne, who's far away.Um there's a distance that's built into the system and into the protocol that creates a kind of boundary that in a way you know, kind of supports a type of perception of you know, the student is in theirplace, the llama is in their place.You're there to receive the teachings when the teachings are over, you go home.You don't drink coffee, you don't you know, and that creates a kind of a you know, like a mystique around the tradition that I think is kind of well preserved in a lot of Dharma centers, but also umyou know, so my relationship to Dr.Nida is is very different because again, like I didn't even think of him in that way.
I met him as a as a well mantra healing teacher, whatever that means.You know, I met him as a workshop leader kind of was my original um connection and then straight away got involved in projects and publishing books and and all the different things.So, there's been a lot of you know, it's been a lot of time with him.And I've actually learned from him.I've learned a lot from observing him.You know, outside of the traditional teaching.Even though I'd say now over time as he's become more well known, it's you know, a lot of the teachings have become more formal in a way, but I've learned a lot from you know, sort of outside thethe classroom watching how one observing him, how he interacts and how he deals with you know, patients or students or people along the way, but two, like having to observe, you know, everything that it brings up in myself
and having to kind of navigate that relationship over time and try to um you know, like I have a lot more questions now than I did 10 years ago.When I have a lot more you know, at the beginning there was a complete just total openness and total you know, um trust and then I start to have like I have a lot more questions now than Idid then, but those questions, you know, if I if I take them as questions that don't have like answers, but if I take those as questions and you know, things that I can really ask and ask myself ormaybe ask him or or mostly ask myself and like that's actually I feel what's helping me to grow a lot more than what I thought at the beginning was helping me grow, which was just total kind of blind
faith and trust, you know.And yeah, I don't say blind in a bad way.Like I don't I don't use that word in a in a negative way.It's it's the you know, like the the kind of trust that a lot of Tibetans I think naturally culturally have from just being so much in part of the you know, the culture of the Dharma and like nothaving questions.But I think for me, you know, the father I had who was very atheist and then you know, like that kind of upbringing which was always like a little suspicious.Very I grew up with a father who was very suspicious of the church.So even though I was so drawn to the you know, to the Buddha Dharma, there's always like there's a little I think I was raised with a little bit of suspicion and that that comes out I would say
when I'm put in certain situations or when there's a little stress or when there's a trigger that kind of I can sort of revert to that part of my upbringing which is like, "Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,you know, what is all this?"And it's been really helpful to actually and kind of like uncomfortable but also helpful to be able to to see that in myself and think, "Oh, maybe I'm not as good a student as I thought I was ormaybe I was, you know."And um I feel like it's really it's it's it's useful and it's ongoing and probably not something that see you know, that there's ever some final resolution to but there's, you know, And I love like you talk's teachingson the guru.I probably maybe Ben has shared these with you or it's in the book.But you know, you talk talks about these different levels of the guru and and the one of them is like the guru of all phenomenon and it's the guru of your own life.
And that is just that's not like that's part of the teachings, you know.We like to focus on the guru as the the guru on the throne but but this is part of the teachings.Like it's not just the guru on the throne.It's it's all the gurus before that guru and you know, that it's all the lineage of gurus but then it's also it's the guru that's your own life.And so all the different types of experiences and people that you meet and challenges that you meet that to really see that as a guru is um has been kind of like a really beautiful and empowering process forme just to start to to really see the guru in those type of um different and not not then have 100% reliance on like you said the asking the question not have that 100% reliance on you know on
the physical guru.You know, gurus die.Guru have gurus have their own there's we we cannot depend you know we cannot depend so much on human figures and personalities.We have to really slowly slowly be able to begin to trust ourselves and the gurus you know traditionally should you know point towards that slowly gradually.
Christiana reflects on what continues to animate her Buddhist path beyond organizational momentum. She says the foundational teachings, especially Ngöndro, have become central to her worldview and provide a sense of completion and satisfaction.
You know, when you began your yoga practice it seemed to be by your description anyway really a quest of curiosity and something to pour yourself into.And at other times perhaps uh guidance direction was another motivation.At this point other than the momentum of being involved in so many Buddhist Buddhist projects what do you think animates or sustains or drives your ongoing practice and I suppose existence within that whole stream of the Dharma world?
Mhm.Yeah, that's a good question because at this point in my life it's sometimes difficult to separate out the momentum of of the work I've in but are you are you talking about my like my personal connection in termsof practice?
Suppose so.
You know, I feel that even though I am you know, I'm not a Tibetan person.I feel there is something like the teachings of the Buddha Dharma and just the basic teachings.I'm not talking about like the high-level teacher.I'm not a very um ambitious practitioner on a lot of levels.I'm not really seeking the the old, but I'm talking about like the very basic kind of like nuts and bolts of Buddhism teachings on impermanence, teachings on karma, teachings on you know, like the four the four thoughts, youknow, everything that's in the Nungdro.Like those things have become something that I truly like rely on.Whether I sit on the you know, when I sit on the cushion or not, like there's those have become so much part of my world view.Like I feel a little bit like sort of culturally it's become it's become who I am, you know, and when I meet people who don't have that world view, it's like almost a little hard to relate to.
So, I feel like, you know, you asked me are you a Buddhist?Like on that level I feel, yeah, kind of through and through I'm a I'm a Buddhist.But then whether you say But then there's the doubts of like, well, I'm not a very good Buddhist practitioner, but I I feel like I'm a Buddhist, you know, I feel like I've I've started to really take inthose those things to heart, you know.And that can take many forms, you know, you don't have to run centers or publish books or you know, give teachings to for that to But but I would say that's why I I stay where I am.I mean, that's one of the things I I noticed very palpably when I met Dr.Nida, there was a feeling of like a little bit stop searching.You know, I I used to go to every teach teaching that would come through my town and I would travel and I would sign up for things and there was definitely a feeling of like not really needing to
search so much, which was very um like comforting and relaxing.And as I go kind of like deeper into, you know, just this book.I mean, this is the Ngöndro book.This book could be you know, the text is 20 pages.The book is seven, you know, that's the That's partly because of Ben, but
there's like for me, that's like that's it.Everything that's in this book is like that's enough for me.Like I don't have to go anywhere or receive any higher teachings.And like that that's really I feel like that's kind of enough for me.I feel very satisfied.I told Ben, I think he he was a little bit worried.I said, "Well, now that we published this book, kind of I feel almost feel like you know, we can retire."And
you know, it's just kind of that feeling of like, "What else?"Like I feel very um complete in in having that book come to
come to publication.
She discusses the appeal of advanced Vajrayana teachings versus the grounding power of preliminary practices. Christiana explains why Ngöndro feels sufficient and how it stabilizes both practitioners and the wider community.
Yeah, it's very interesting because your organizations and Doctor Nida teach does teach many of what what might consider to be the more sort of advanced or higher practices.Dzogchen uh Tummo, right Karma Mudra.These are the These are the practices that often people are drawn to and they think these are the cool ones, you know.And you've got to get through Ngöndro to get to the good stuff, you know, the powerful stuff.Often people say that, don't they?And we've talked about this.Doctor Nida talked about that a lot and I interviewed him about the book you just held up and Ben talked about it and so on.Um what what do you think about all those sorts of higher teachings?Presumably they're all around you all the time, these practices and so on.You're You're around them.Do you just let them sort of flow by like a like the river?
Or do you try to implement them?Or how do you relate to them?I mean, given that they're all around you.
Yeah, I mean, and of course I've received some some of these teachings and I don't want to um you know undermine, but when you asked me like about my kind of breakthrough experiences, and there've been, you know, sortof few in in my life, but most of them have been doing things that are not kind of advanced teachings.They've been in in the Ngondro and in the Guru Yoga and I and when I One of the things that I've consistently been doing since the beginning of having Pureland Farms is guiding Ngondro groups here.I don't even really want to say guiding, but you know, let's say facilitating Ngondro groups here, you know, every year, twice a year at Pureland Farms and there's like so much magic that happens in those retreats from thecoming together of the group and then from the practice and when I just go in reading and reading and reading and reading, I I I always kind of have the question like like I feel like everything is there
and I I don't want to say that everything is there because there's obviously a reason for all of the complex, you know, for all of the diversity and teachings and you need, you know, you have dream life, youneed to deal with your dreams.You have death, you need to deal with your death.You have, you know, there's a reason for all of the teachings, but somehow in my core of core, I feel like if you really somehow if you go really really really deep into this, you know, so-called preliminary practicesthat that will prepare you for you know, for everything, for for death.I I think and now I don't know because I'm speaking from This is my sort of intuitive feeling and maybe it's an obstacle or of some sort of laziness.I don't know.I'm I'm totally open to that possibility, but I just personally feel like there's so much in the foundational practices.
And on an organizational level is very interesting because this year after we published the book, we created a class on the book, which is a Ngondro class and we basically whole year we're going through the basically the teachingsof the Ngondro practice and there's a few hundred people who join online and you know, Dr.Nida teaches once a month and Ben goes through the Tibetan once a month and I guide sessions and what I've noticed as a organizer of this course is like the people who are in the course are so stable.They show up every week.They do the practice.They don't ask too many questions.They don't bombard the Sorig Institute.You know, Sarah's always on the receiving end of all the emails and they don't bombard the You know, it's like very grounding.They're very grounded.And I think that's a you know, a tribute to to the Nungdro.
And sometimes when we host, you know, these more sort of esoteric things, it's it's not the same, you know.People kind of clinging I want this.I want like more and more and more and why didn't he say that?Or did he get the lung?I missed it.Or where and when is the lung?When is the lung?You know,
like and it's just this like constant kind of like you know, like what's next?What's next?What's next?And I you know, in this group, it's like this is it.There's nothing We're just this is what we're doing this year.We're not like graduating.You're not going to get a certificate at the end.You're not going to get a robe.You're not going to get a you know, like this is it.We're just practicing Nungdro together.And I can just feel how grounding that is.And I think though just the world right now is is so just sad.Like the the whole state of the you know, having that kind of stability is is something that I think is really beautiful.So somehow I that's been my anchor and what and and you know, that's kind of been my anchor within the all the you know, the world you know, on a smaller level the organizations that I'm connected with and
on a larger level the the world and all the just movement and uncertainty like I just really love that, you know, and those Yutok's teachings and those foundational teachings has as we've received them.That's kind of that's sort of been my anchor within it all.
Christiana gives a chronological account of her organizations, from Sorig Khang Portland to Sky Press, Pure Land Farms, and the Sowa Rigpa Institute. She describes how each project emerged spontaneously through collaboration, pandemic adaptation, and a growing arts-and-culture vision.
Well, this has been wonderful, Christiana.I mean, I could quiz you for another 2 hours, but uh you know, tempus fugit and all that.Um I wonder if you might say a things about just the different organizations you started and you've and you know sort of potted history I suppose of that side of your life.Uh you're talking about Sorig Khang something that I benefited from actually taking I was in the first cohort for your
Yeah.
for your practitioner course and uh concurrently uh the the the counselor course to your counselor course.I took those concurrently during the the lockdown days.That was a lot that was many days a week for many hours.
Yeah.
It was good good lockdown benefit I suppose.And so I've benefited a lot from that wonderful course rigorous um thorough going over the gushy and practical things as well.Um so I wonder if you might take a potted history take us through sort of potted history of all the various different organizations you've you've founded.
I will I will I'll do my best to follow the chronology.Um So 2012 when I met Dr.Nida and Uh actually you know I was studying for a couple of years with him and then I took that time in Asia and Indonesia.I came back to finish my Chinese medicine school and then during those 2 years um Dr.Nida asked me to try to organize some small classes or you know this looked like medicine Buddha meditations.I would open my house or you know so we called this this was part of the Sorig Khang International network um so we called it that Sorig Khang Portland.It was quite um you know informal and we would host when Dr.Nida came to America and also organize some small groups.So that was the start and then um So I mentioned that word that name Yuthok Nyingthig I think I'll come back to this in a minute but Yuthok Nyingthig then was this name that kind of when I decided
to come back to America and even though it was kind of started as a name for this place you know imaginary in Indonesia, um he said to me, "Just keep that name because it'll kind of guide you inyour life."And I really felt that, so I held on to this name, and even though I wasn't I thought I was going to become a Chinese medicine practitioner.I didn't in the end, but I thought I was going to I was going to that was going to be my acupuncture the name of my acupuncture clinic, sort of Yangchenma Healing Arts.So, I'll get back to that in a in a moment, but um and then the really the first uh formal thing that we started with Sky Press, and that's why, you know, you sort of asked me why whynow are you willing to talk on the podcast is because I want to really honor that sort of decade of um activities, and it really started with Sky Press in the year 2016 in a very um spontaneous way.
I basicallysaw a Facebook post, Dr.Nida said, "It's the year of the monkey, and it's a good year for Ati yoga, and um I'm going to start teaching Yuthok's Ati yoga."I and I just wrote I think I wrote on Facebook, "Oh, when you come to Portland, will you please give these teachings next time you're in Portland?"And so we made a text for the teachings, and then that text
so that that became this Mirror of Light, which is our our first book, and it came because a lot of a few things coming together.I think one, you know, the tendril of requesting that teaching, two, uh meeting Dr.Ben Joffe, who was not yet a Dr.meeting Ben Joffe, who was off in Dharamsala.That was through a very kind of unusual connection.A friend of mine in Portland said, "Hey, I met this guy in Dharamsala who seems to be translating some things and putting them online by somebody named Dr.Nida.Is that the same Dr.Nida that that you're studying with?"And I said, "I don't know."And I looked online, and I saw Ben was kind of doing these translations and I contacted Ben and I said, "Hey, who are you, Ben?"You know.And and Ben was didn't know had never met Dr.
Nida and but he was kind of interested in his work and he was just roughly translating and putting online and and Dr.Nida who very rarely goes to India was about to go to India and I told Ben, "Well, why don't you go meet him.He's giving a teaching in Bangalore."So, Ben went there and received the task or the assignment or the empowerment, whatever you want to call it, of translating this book.And he was not a translator.I mean, Ben was you know, spoke Tibetan and and was but he wasn't like he didn't he was not a translator by trade.It's not something that he did for for work and Dr.Nida said, "Why don't you, you know, kind of give it a try?"And he did and that became the text that we he taught from next time we were in Portland.
Then he met there was a graphic designer named Pierce Gaffney who he and Dr.Nida said, "Well, call that guy cuz he would he just happened to be in Amsterdam at that moment at the Pierce's house and I said, "Pierce, can you lay it out?"And it just started to kind of take the form of a book.It wasn't really the plan to be the book.It was the plan to be a little bit of a course manual.And then few months later there was a Sorig book conference in Estonia and there was a another book project that was being kind of proposed.This was within the Sorig Khung International kind of gathering and people were saying, "Oh, we have this project.We have that project."Blah blah blah blah and there was a book a project about a points book and they were looking for I don't know exactly what they were looking for.
Maybe they were looking for funding.Maybe they were looking for graphic design.Well, not really clear but there's a project.Does anyone want to help?And I was like, "I want to help."And well, great.Can you start a publishing house?
That kind of, you know, there were a couple conversations in between that, but basically it was can you we'd love to publish this book, but we need a publishing house.And that's how Sky Press started.You know, little time elapsed, but almost kind of as spontaneously as that.And then Mirror of Light was the first book.And
I don't have publishing experience.I've never worked in a publishing house.I just I really like books, you know, that was my motivation for raising my hand.I like books.I like to read them.I used to read them a lot more than I read them now, but I like to touch them.I like paper.I like print.I like printing presses.I like graphic design.You know, like I just it was like a to me the idea of running a publishing house is is totally romantic, you know, I love the idea of running a publishing house, but kind of in the old schoolway I imagine like pressing paper and you know, that kind of thing.So, I offered and and we did it.So, that was 10 years ago today.And in the meantime, been a lot of books, but um before that uh we started Pure Land Farms in California, created a physical place.
And really soon after that the COVID pandemic.So, you know, we were open for a little while and then COVID just completely um changed you know, the way that this place became, you know, we had to pretty much shut down.And Dr.Nida said he's he asked me You know, Dr.Nida teaches he's a he like he's born to teach basically.So, when physical teaching shut down, he just turned on his phone and just started talking on Facebook live.Like there wasn't I don't think a moment of gap between, you know, between and then he asked me, "Oh, can you do a Why don't you do a Nungdro group?"We barely have in like our internet here was so bad at the time.Very low technology kind of center.We never did a live stream.We didn't have a camera.Very like We're very analog here.
And so anyway, I figured out how to get on the Zoom and guide a Nungdro group and then he said that he wanted to teach Sowa Rigpa.And I said, "What do you want to teach?"And this was at the beginning.We really had no idea None of us had any idea how long this was going to last.I said, "You want to teach like a weekend?"And he said, "No, I want to teach 100 days."And so So you can't do that on Facebook live.Like we need to have a platform for that something.So we created the platform and we launched this first class called Foundations of Sowa Rigpa and the Sowa Rigpa Institute.And then the Yutok 100 days of Yutok training parallel to that.So those were happening at the same time and then the course ended and pandemic is still going on and these students are saying, "Well, what's next?"
And then we created more courses and that that whole 4-year curriculum that you participated in was literally pieced together as we go.I mean, luckily we had the guide of the the Gyushi the the traditional four medical tantras, but that and then Ben was helping to facilitate and Dr.Nida was teaching every day and we recorded and transcribed and you know, edited and then we were able to come out with the the books.So it it all and you know, now we've graduated to cohorts of the 4-year training.Started the counselor program.So and then, you know, boom back in the world and back to in-person teaching and traveling and online education.So now it's kind of like a bit it's all Now I'm trying to piece it all back together and and uh but that's, you know, that's all that started and then sort of parallel to that the one thing
that I felt um got a little bit sort of lost or abandoned in that project was this name Yangchenma which was really kind of close to my heart and um when I met my partner Simone Simone Giuliani wehe was a musician artist music composer producer and when I kind of just told him you know there's this goddess of Tibetan goddess of music and arts and I really wanted to you know and usually when you saythat to people they're like Yangchen you know they can't pronounce the name and it's a weird name and nobody can remember it and he kind of clicked with it Yangchenma and we started to um invite artists here andteachers because I didn't I really didn't want Pureland Farms to you know Dr.Nida lives in Italy he travels he's not here all the time I didn't want Pureland Farms to become kind of a center where we would just invite teachers from every different lineage and then we you know just to
kind of fill I don't want to fill the calendar with yoga and meditation just to fill the calendar and have it be feel very uncohesive and not have a lineage so I thought what is it that complements youknow the Sorig Pa and the Yuthok Nyingthig that we do here and I I put a lot of thought into like you know what does it mean to be in a Pureland what does it mean to be inTanaduk so Tanaduk is the Medicine Buddha's garden which we we have here you came here in the early days you should come back cuz it's evolved a lot since then but like what does it mean Tanaduk is aplace where all the students of the Medicine Buddha from different traditions is very non-sectarian and it literally means um beautiful to behold so I said has to be so I I felt like you know arts and culture was
this very non-sectarian non-dogmatic way of kind of bringing people into kind of connect with the center and to appreciate music and arts and so then Simone and I started to develop this arts organization and record musicians and andand that one's kind of going to blast far out of the beyond even though it was inspired by Tibetan and Himalayan culture there's you know music from all different traditions and so we're working on that too.So that's what I that's what I do.That was a the long answer but it started all from Yeah, it started in Portland and basically officially started 10 years ago in November with SkyPress and this November and then this year Losar was year of the horseconsidered a very auspicious year for Yuthok so I wanted to really kind of celebrate and look back and and really see everything that's been that's been accomplished and inspired in in those 10 years.
We also opened a little clinic in Nepal where I believe you also went worked with the Amchis there.So it's yeah, it's been a beautiful process and you know Dr.Nida's traveling and inspiring people all all over the world and they're starting different things and it's kind of it's just all different kind of versions and tastes and flavors and and that's that's our organization so I'm I'm apart of that.
In closing, Christiana reflects on the unusual, diverse sangha that has formed around these projects and the sense of safety it offers. She emphasizes openness, individuality, and the value of helping people feel welcome even when they do not fit conventional boxes.
Well, happy anniversary.
Thank you.
And thank you for all you've done and started and facilitated and benefited so many people including me actually so personal thank you for me also for everything you've put together and of course collaboration with the team and andall that but at least seeing as you're the only one here right now I'll say thank you very much to you.
No, thank you so much Steve for participating on both sides and for, you know, including all of us on your podcast and sharing what we do.It's really it's really beneficial.Thank you for having me.Hope you can come back here soon and come visit us.
Well, I'd like to very much, yeah.So, is there anything as we're bringing this to an end, Christiana, that you'd like to say by way of sort of conclusion?There there needn't be, but if there is, this would be a good time.
Mhm.
I think I think I feel like we we touched on a lot of things.I will maybe I'll just conclude to say that um you know, I think something I have learned uh so, I grew up, as I said, in New York City.It's a very uh particular way to grow up in a in a building quite disconnected from nature, you know, coming to Pure Land Farms and being in the plants and being in the nature, but I think, you know,we talk about we always talk about the three jewels and Buddha Dharma and the Buddha and the Dharma and the Sangha and I think what I've really grown to appreciate through my work in this organization and various waysthat I've been able to support different activities is really the sense of Sangha that has developed and I think we're quite in we're we're a little bit of an unusual Sangha, you know, we're not like a lot of
Sanghas and I have a really great appreciation for the connection of the different humans, you know, and like we have people really literally all over the world who come from very different cultures and they communicate in very differentways and when I run retreats here at Pure Land Farms, I always feel like and I I say this like with the utmost affection, like we're all like a little weird, you know, we're all a little quirky.It's a little bit of a we're a little bit of a kind of a quirky kind of Sangha, but in a you know, really good way and people say that when they come here, they feel like they feelreally safe and welcome and I think that, you know, has a lot to do with Dr.Nida's teaching and openness and Yutok's teaching of the emphasis on health and medicine and just the international nature of our sangha.
It really has become kind of a beautiful type of Now, I like the word sky press.We We say sort of sky family, a kind of family where everybody can kind of fit in in their own way and we don't have to be the same.We don't all have to act the same.We don't all have to be the good Buddhists and do everything the same, you know, and I'm that's the thing that I have been appreciating most in seeing all the colors and the diversity of the people who getinvolved and that's given me, I think, confidence too to try to learn how to be more and more also myself and not have to always fit into what I think it, you know, how I should be.So, that's the Yeah, I want I think in this really changing world and the Buddhist systems are changing and institutions are changing and a lot of the big Dharma institutions are kind of you know, crumbling for different reasons.
It's that that to have that kind of sense of safety and openness and diversity is something that I feel really um you know, I'm like I'm proud to be a part of that and to help facilitate that andfor people to feel welcome even, you know, even if they don't always fit exactly into the box.So, I think that's kind of connected a little bit with my own personal story and journey.So, yeah, I think I can leave it there.
Christiana Polites, thank you very much.
Thank you so much, Steve.See you next time.
You couldn't help it, could
Welcome.
Thank you for listening to another Guru Viking podcast.For more interviews like these, as well as articles, videos, and guided meditations, visit www.guruviking.com.