Transcript
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The judge explains the informal hearing process and reviews the dispute history. The timeline of plumbing visits, estimates, repairs, and the later refund demand is laid out.
The rules of evidence do not apply, and so this is really a you know, these are relatively informal proceedings.While I do put you under oath, and so you're providing testimony under oath, the way I like to do it is is ask questions, make it a little dynamic, but you know, more conversational than giving a speech.I know that this is a refile from an earlier claim that was dismissed when Ms.Cain I think failed to appear at a hearing.You know, the fact that she refiled with some of the same allegations, you know, that doesn't necessarily bar the proceedings from moving forward today as long as a claim is brought within an applicable statute of limitations, and ithasn't been you know, a decision on the merits hasn't been made.You know, it'd be one thing if it was dismissed on the merits and then refiled, but a failure to appear resulting in a default judgment, um we were able to still proceed today.
So, we'll go ahead and proceed on the merits.Having reviewed the file from both the plaintiff and the defendant, my understanding here is that we're looking at about see January 22nd.This is all in 2026.Ms.Cain contacted West Coast Plumbing and Pumps indicating that a well was had failing water pressure.Um and had some issues with the pressure tank and pump.Um West Coast Plumbing responded next day, provided an estimate for fixing the pressure tank, and advised that the pump was operational, but nearing the end of its life and should be replaced soon.January 26th, the West Coast Plumbing completes a pressure tank replacement and instructs Ms.Cain instructs West Coast Plumbing folks she's not at a point where she wants the pump to be replaced just yet uh due to financial concerns.And then in February, February 23rd, uh Ms.Cain contacts West Coast Plumbing again, indicates there's no water, uh needs the pump to be replaced.
Um and then West Coast Plumbing installs a a new pump control box uh that Ms.Ms.Cain pays for.Um and then not long after that, believe it's February 27th, uh Ms.Cain contacts West Coast Plumbing again indicating that um there's issues with the water pressure, demands a refund.Uh and then uh February 28th, uh Ms.Cain hires Advanced Septic and Advanced Pump Services that comes out and and does work that she pays for.Um so um that's sort of the timeline there.
Ms. Cain is sworn in and describes why she believes West Coast Plumbing failed her. She says she repeatedly asked for a pump replacement and argues the work done did not solve the water problem.
Um I again, I'll have some questions as I hear testimony.Uh and we'll start with Ms.Cain.Uh before I swear you in, ma'am, um you know, a couple of clarifying questions uh that I'd like you to direct your attention to.Um and the first is um if you could help clarify exactly the the claim you're making here.So, um in both both plaintiff and defendant have filed um exhibits uh that include um estimates uh that have descriptions of of work um and at least one of the estimates appears to be signed by Ms.Cain.So, is it a are you alleging that there was a a breach of that of a contract?Uh the contract being those uh the description of the work there.Um you know, is it is it negligence?Are you are you claiming that the defendants um were negligent in their work?
Um you know, property damage associated with the the well.So, um it was a bit unclear to me exactly what um the the nature of the claim is on your on your notice.The claim is just listed as other.Um and so it'd be helpful to know sort of where you're grounding that that was allegations.Um so that's number one.Um number two um as I mentioned before both parties have submitted as exhibits uh these estimates uh that appear to be essentially contracts.Uh they're work estimates but they have description of work and amount you know, amount owed and appears invoices happened after that for the amount indicated in the estimates.Um and so I think it would be helpful to just address from the beginning uh Ms.Cain if you your position on if those are those were contracts between you and and West Coast Plumbing.
Um again, not all of them have been signed in the area where it indicates customer signature.Um and so if you have any thoughts on that, I'd I'd appreciate it.And then uh Mr.Joiner, when I turn to you, I'd ask you the same question.Okay.Um so with that said, uh Ms.Cain, if you could please raise your right hand.Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to provide in this matter is the truth and the whole truth?
I do.
Okay.Go ahead.
Um your honor, I I Do you want me to answer your questions or just give you the overview?
Uh answering the questions uh would be helpful and then you can provide an overview.Um again, I've read everything in the file so you know, I don't want you to necessarily go through point by point what the allegations are um that I've already sort of gone over here.Um but yeah, if you could answer those questions and then if you'd like to sort of supplement what you've submitted and what I went over there, um I think that would be helpful.But again, it's your testimony.Um so I'll I'll leave the rest to you.
Well, I asked West Coast Plumbing to come out look at my water system.They did.I was not home when they did this.Um I stated several times that the water pump was out and needed replaced.Um they chose to give me an estimate to replace a bunch of items in the garage and not replace the water pump.So, based off of their recommendations cuz I know nothing about water systems, uh I let them go ahead and repair the parts and the stuff in the garage, which never solved the problem.And then I had to hire somebody else to put in a water pump.So, that's I'm asking for reimbursement because I feel it's fraudulent to come on to someone's property and do a bunch of work that they knew ahead of time was not going to solve the issue.
All right.Did you have Did you have a chance to review um the exhibits provided by Mr.Joiner?
I did, Your Honor.
Okay.So, I guess the question is that I imagine he's going to sort of rely on on some of this.So, I think it's helpful to hear your response.Um you know, the way the way Mr.Joiner kind of lays it out is that you you were advised um at at the outset about the issues with the pump.Um and that you know, defense here is is claiming that you made the the decision uh to hold off on on replacing the pump um understanding that it was kind of functional but nearing the end of its lifeand should probably be replaced soon.Um and and elected to just go forward with the replacing the water tank.Um do you have a a response to that?
I do, Your Honor.If you look at audio file exhibit C, you will see in the conversations that had with the receptionist.Uh for instance, line 30 says, "I still want a water pump replaced."That was me.Line 35, I said, "Can he possibly do the pump?"Line 48, when the receptionist asks, "You want to replace the pump?"Which my answer was yes.And then, line 51, where I say, "Pump is at the end of its lifespan."And she states, in line 58, "Replace the pressure pump and pressure switch will extend the life of the pump."Which it never did, because the pump had already gone out.
Okay, so you're It sounds to me like you're you're claiming that uh West Close Plumbing should have identified or educated you about an issue with the pump when they came out to do their initial estimate.Um and you're to the and that you asked for a new pump to the extent that you wanted to hold off um sounds like maybe that was because you feel you were advised it was maybe not necessary oror something to that effect.Is that Is that what I'm hearing?
Basically, Your Honor, I have to go with their evaluations, because I don't know water systems, but I knew my pump had failed.And it was not working.And so, I feel that they should have focused on that and put the pump in.He's saying I didn't have money for the pump, which is not true.Um I I just am disappointed that they came out and replaced everything else and would not put a water pump in when I told them numerous times I needed a new water pump.
The judge reviews the January call transcript and questions both sides about what was said regarding the pump. Mr. Joiner explains that the company gave recommendations, the customer chose to delay replacement, and the work performed was intended to restore water.
The you're referencing the exhibit C audio file.Is that I know there was a couple of conversations that were referenced.Is that do you was that a was that a January phone call or was that a one of the February phone calls?
I think that was the initial.I was not at home for most of January because I did some travel.So that was all the initial contact I did with them.
Okay.All right.So your your understanding is that although this audio file 126
Okay.So January.Okay.Let me just take a look here.Okay.So one of the um staying on that conversation and exhibit C um Miss Cain, so now I'm looking at Well, through it's page 13 of 37.I mean hang on.I'm sorry.Now I'm in exhibit D.No.Exhibit C or D?Okay.Well, it's looks like there may be some
It's exhibit C, your honor, from the previous filings, but exhibit D from the new filings.
Oh, I see that.Yep.Thank you for clarifying.Yeah, the PDF here if you have just the whole PDF open, it's page 24.And so here I'm looking at sort of the middle speaker one who I believe is the representative from Westcoast Plumbing says uh you said the two of you were talking about the the pump and the lifespan.And then what they've under what Mr.Joiner I think is underlined and bolded.Um the representative from West Coast Plumbing says, "If you want to replace the pump as well, I can ask him to write up what that's going to cost to include the pressure tank and the pressure switch and getyou on the schedule to do all the work on Wednesday."Uh speaker two, I believe that's you, Ms.Cain, um says, "Or we can just maybe replace the tank and the switch and then I will schedule with you a little later out for the pump.
So, if the pump keeps going, uh maybe that's what I should do because that would be easier on the pocketbook."Umand then later on, um West Coast Plumbing says, you know, his thinking was that if you do that now, um and just know that the pump at some point will need to be replaced.So, indicating replacing the tank that the pump will need to be replaced soon.You indicate, "So, let's do that.I can uh make it easier on my pocketbook."So, I think that's the that exchange was I think the nature of the response that um you know, there was advisement of the issue with the pump, but the decision was made to maybe hold off on that.Um are you So, do you Now that we've kind of dug into the transcript a bit, do you have a a response there?
Well, your honor, I was just taking their recommendations.Again, there was a lot of focus on all the separate parts in the garage and when I called, I made it pretty clear that my pump was failing and I I needed and wanted a new water pump.And they seemed unwilling to do the pump and they wanted to do everything all of the other components.
Okay.All right.So, it sounds like you're you're in agreement that your kind of your decision was to uh hold off on on replacing the pump, but you're saying that that you you reached that decision based on kind of faulty advice.
Essentially, yes, cuz I wasn't there and I know nothing about water systems, but I did know my pump was failing.
Okay.All right.Um, let's see.Looks like from uh Marnie, it sounds like that other matter has settled.
It has settled, yes.Thank you.Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you very much.Appreciate you uh your work this morning.Okay.Um, all right.Thank you, Ms.Cain.Uh I'm going to uh swear in Mr.Joiner now um and hear from defense.Uh so, Mr.Joiner, if you could please raise your right hand.Do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to provide in this matter is the truth and the whole truth?
Yes, sir.
Okay.Um, go ahead.
Um, gosh, I don't think I need to really say much.Um, one of the biggest things for our company is is we provide all the recommendations that are at our disposal right there.Whether or not a client chooses to do it or not, we don't want to force them into doing something and we're not going to mislead somebody into doing something they shouldn't do.Well pump systems are expensive to maintain and operate and we do understand that.If we can get somebody back into water, that's what we choose to do.That's what we want to do.That's what we like to do without having to replace all the components.But, a pressure tank and a pressure switch that are causing a pump to not work properly and the pressure tank being the heart of the system, if we can fix that and get them longer life on their well
pump, even three, four, five, six months or six years, that's what we'd like to do.We did recommend she replace the well pump.She knew that the well pump was going out.We knew that the well pump was going to go out.She chose not to do that at this time cuz she was going out of country, traveling, whatever she was choosing to do.But we did get her back into water.It just didn't last as long as we hoped it would.
We also did recommend replacing the well pump.She wanted to do it.We said okay, we can do it.I'm never going to tell a customer no, we can't do that unless we legally can't perform that service or work.Because that's just business.You do the work that customer asks you to do.You go out, you do it.Happy customer, happy company, happy technicians.And she chose not to do it.
The judge presses Ms. Cain on what legal duty was breached and whether the company failed to solve the problem. Both sides revisit the conversation and dispute whether the pump replacement was recommended, declined, or mishandled.
I don't have anything else to say.
All right.
Sorry that I'm just I'm going through some of the some of the transcripts too.Let's see.
Oh, speaking of that, really quick, I'm sorry.To to rely on the dispatcher's schedule or position to say whether or not a system is going to work for her isn't somebody to rely on.It's the technician that's going to rely on that you need to rely on saying what's going to work, what's not going to work, what needs to happen, what doesn't need to happen.She went a whole month with water.
All right.Thank you.
Your Honor, do you think I could say something?
Yeah, go ahead.It is your claim.So you get the last word here and then uh, we'll go ahead and make a decision.Um, and so um, yeah, so Ms.Cain, you you'll have the last word.Um, I think sounds like you there's something you'd like to uh, say um, outside of a question for me.Uh, but I I I do think it would be helpful to to clarify here.Um, uh, so um, it sounds to me like you know, you're not claiming a breach of contract.You're you're claiming um, it sounds like uh, essentially negligence on the on the point of the of the defense um, for um, uh, for for failing to properly advise you about what needed to happen with your pump.Now, when you bring a negligence claim, what you need to do is demonstrate that there's some some standard of care, some industry standard of care that the defendant breached and that that breach then caused you damages.
Um, and so it sounds like the the where you're claiming this breach of care happened was during that initial um, during that initial conversation where one of the technicians from West Coast Plumbing came out and went to theproperty and and uh, you talked about the scope of work and what you wanted, what you didn't.Um, and so in order for you to legally be entitled to any recovery, you do need to show that there was some standard of care that that was breached uh, by by West Coast Plumbing.And so um, you know, when you when you get to your your final comments here, um, you know, if you could focus on that conversation uh, that happened where um, again, mindful that defense is is is arguing thatthat you were advised about the pump that it needed to be replaced eventually um, and and that and that you elected not to do it, Um, um, and so how that conversation breached some sort of duty of care
that West Coast Plumbing owed to you, as a, you know, as a company that does this, you know, that that's really the the argument you need to make, um, that, you know, that's that's what I need to findis kind of is again we go back to that more likely than not standard.I need to find there's more likely than not there was a standard that was that was breached that caused you damages.Um, and so I I haven't quite heard that yet, um, you know, it's it's sort of undisputed here that the a pump at some point needed replacing in February after work was done.Um, and you know, that that's sort of not in dispute, uh, but what is in dispute is whether there was any legal responsibility for that, um, having happened earlier.So, um, I would ask you to to maybe direct your testimony to to that conversation that happened earlier in January, um, and then anything else you'd like to tell me before we
Okay, good.
I'm just trying to figure out standard of care you're under.Um, I'm assuming that part of standard of care would be that you perform a task that solves the problem.When you pay somebody uh, money to fix something and they don't fix it, is that or is that not standard of care?Because I never had water the entire month of January.I was gone most of January, and Mr.Joiner is saying that he reestablished my water, but he did not because I left right after they did the repairs, I didn't get back, and I never had water.Those few days I was home that month, I went without water.So, I had no water for the entire month of January despite he said something differently.So, I'm just I'm trying to figure out when you're saying standard of care, you know, isn't there some responsibility from a company to get me up and going if you hadn't when I wanted a water pump replaced and
they did all those other components and didn't do my water pump.I that's that's
Well, again though, it Yes, again, it sounds like in January there was a conversation about a pump and the decision was made to to not replace the pump.Um and so if if that's ultimately what caused some damage, it sounds like um it sounds like there was a conversation in January about this pump needing to be replaced and again, you know, may have been based on,you know, some conversations you had with a technician, but um you know, a decision was made not to replace the pump and then if that's ultimately what caused damage um later or what caused there to not be water,umyou know, that I'm having a I'm struggling to get past where, you know, a decision being made to not replace the pump back in January that ultimately caused there to be no water and then the solution was to
sounds like to replace the pump.Um you know, how that gets back to the defendant as far as being legally responsible for that.You're saying that the reason that decision was made be was because of um advice you got from a technician that caused you to to put off having a pump.So, maybe you know, I'll give you another, you know, some final comments here.What about that that initial conversation in January where they came out to to look at the tank and the pump, you know, what was it that um you know, led you to believe or to conclude or make thedecision that you weren't at that time ready to replace the pump.
Well, I was ready to replace the pump.I was taking their recommendations.Because again, I don't know anything about water systems.I wanted them to replace the pump.They wouldn't replace the pump.They wanted to do all the other components.So, I I had to take their recommendations cuz they're the professionals.
Okay.So, are you saying that they they they recommended that you not replace the pump?
No, they recommended doing all of the other components in the garage.
Okay.
And they said that the pump would need to be replaced.I I would have much rather like them to replace the pump than all the other components in the garage, but that's not how things happened.
All right.Give me a couple more minutes here.
I think exhibit May I speak, Your Honor?
Sure.
I think exhibit C, which has become exhibit D now for the current case, um lays out pretty well that the components that we replaced were bad and the components we replaced got her back up into water.The pressure switch and pressure tank being bad causing her to not have any water.We got her back up into water, which then at that time it's you're going to need a new well pump based upon the other checks we were able to do because the pump was running and the invoice showsthat if we if the pump isn't running, we can't do the other checks.And that's where we get our determination that the pump is on its last life and is going to need to be replaced.We're not ever going to tell somebody that they have to replace something if it's not broken.It's up to the customer to choose whether or not they want to do that or not.
And she chose not to do that because she was going on vacation.It states it in the exhibit during the conversations.And that she'd rather just wait because of her pocketbook.All right.
Okay, thank you.
After rereading the transcript, the judge summarizes the exchange and concludes there is no legal basis for recovery. The claim is dismissed in favor of the defense, and the hearing ends.
I'm going to take I'm going to just reread exhibit C here before making a decision cuz I think that's um that's helpful for what we're zeroing in on here.
And then um clarifying question two.So again, for exhibit C /D um the the file looks like it's called 1262026.And so is this a transcript of a conversation on January 26th?So this is
This is the January 26th, 2026 call?
Yes, sir.Yeah, yes, sir.
All right, thank you.All right, so I think So what I'm looking at here um is I think it's easier to reference this PDF page 24.Um And so here um it's it's clear.So Ms.Cain is is calling on January 26th.So where we are in the timeline here is at this point um West Coast Plumbing has provided an estimate for fixing the pressure tank.Um and advised the pump is operational, but should be replaced soon.Then on the 26thof January, uh before So we're still dealing with kind of the estimate of what's going to happen.Uh Ms.Cain calls West Coast Plumbing and he's getting now reading off that transcript.UmIt's Let's see.Miss Kane, uh yeah, he he mean that I think the technician made some notes in there that said pump's at the end of its lifespan and that's why I want to I want to replace it.
I mean, it doesn't make any sense to have you out to replace the tank and then, you know, whatever this pump goes out, it's going to go out.And then the West Coast Plumbing representative says, uh so verified power 242 control box and pressure switch.The pressure switch was open and not working correctly.Could be debris.Um kind of talking about that.So the pressure tank is water logged.Pressure switch and the pressure tank are both bad.So he said, sounds like the scheduler is reading off of notes from the technician.Uh the pump is nearing the end of its life.If you just replace the pressure tank and the pressure switch, that will extend the life of on the pump, but those are necessary for the pump life to happen.If you want to replace the pump as well, I can ask him to write up what that's going to cost to include with the pressure tank and the pressure switch and get you on the schedule to do all
that work on Wednesday.Uh and then Miss Kane, or we could just maybe replace the tank and the switch and then I will switch I will schedule with you a little later out for the pump.So if the pump keeps going, maybe that's what I should do because that will be easier on my pocketbook.And then that's only and ends up being what happens.So I I think what I'm reading here and Miss Kane, correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you identified that there was this issue with the pump not working and from the outset, you know, you you hadconcerns about doing all this work with the tank and not addressing the pump.What you were told and it sounds like either through the scheduler or the scheduler reading notes from the technician or maybe this is also the conversation with the technician.
uh
Generally the advice was, you know, the in order to extend the life of the pump kind of step one would be to fix the pressure tank and then yeah, extending the pressure tank and the and the and theswitch associated with the pressure tank, which is kind of step one for extending the life of the pump.And then you could always do that first to see if, you know, if that helps with the pump.And then the pump can be addressed later.You agreed and then sure enough, you know, maybe sooner than expected, there were more issues in the pump and it ended up needing to be replaced.Is that kind of a fair summary, Ms.Cain, of the issue?
It's a fair summary, Your Honor, but I as you can tell from the conversation, I really tried to steer them towards replacing the water pump.Okay.
Okay.All right.Um Yeah, but understood.So at this point, ma'am, I don't find that there's a legal basis to award you a judgment.I understand I think what you're saying.I understand that this is also a case where, you know, you know your you know your system, but you're not an expert here and and you're sort of relying on experts.I can't assess one way or another here whether that type of guidance from the company, which has to both you know, figure out what it exactly is you want, you know, without veering too much into telling you, youknow, what you should have.You know, that's that's a you know, that's that's something that service industry needs to do all the time, right?Is is figure out what a customer wants, provide options, but not necessarily make their decision.Based on that interaction that is at the heart of this dispute.
You know, I I I I can't find that there was, you know, by a preponderance of the evidence a breach of a of a standard of care here um based on what I'm hearing.It sounds like there may have been some advice about the pump needing to be replaced.Um and I know you you feel that that advice maybe should have gone stronger towards replacing the pump.Uh I'm not in a position to say that that the nature of that advice breached a breached a legal resulting in in a legal claim for a refund.Um and so yeah, under the law, ma'am, I can't award you a judgment here today.Um and so I will find in favor of of defense um and and dismiss the claim.Uh do you have any questions, Ms.Cain?
No.
Um while you're contemplating that, um Mr.Joiner, any questions, sir?
No, your honor.
All right.Okay.Okay.Uh Ms.Cain, anything further, ma'am?
No, sir.
All right.Thank you both for being here today.Uh you're free to log off.
Thank you, sir.