# How Benny Blanco Made The Biggest Songs in The World

**Channel:** Daniel Wall
**Source:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q12XDphPJL0
**Transcript page:** https://www.withtranscript.ai/video/Q12XDphPJL0

## Chapters

- 0:00 — Opening With Unheard Demo Stories
- 3:35 — How Songs Evolve From Demos
- 11:06 — Stereo Hearts And Trusting Instinct
- 18:55 — Julia Michaels And Issues
- 23:12 — The Making Of Diamonds
- 34:04 — Creative Process And Fast Demos
- 37:52 — Working Styles With Different Artists
- 43:52 — Teenage Dream And Early Production
- 49:37 — Food, Comfort, And Session Energy
- 51:54 — Ed Sheeran Collaboration Journey
- 58:12 — Love Yourself And Song Magic
- 1:04:23 — Song Organization And Artist Evolution
- 1:12:12 — When Songs Feel Too Personal
- 1:15:49 — Advice For New Creators

## Transcript

**[0:00]:** has anyone ever heard these before no besides the people who made them I don't think anyone's ever heard any this is insane that song was like 8 years old by the time really yeah by the time it came out wait I I think I it's the return what of Benny Britney Spear rihan you got Selena Gomez on it hundreds of millions of record song who is this Benny Blanco that's on all these songs did I ever tell you the diamond story every single person told us Stereo Hearts wouldn't work a mov like Jagger is not going to work every person sometimes I'm taking a and I just hear a whole chorus in my head was like Jagger was the song you were trying to make as your idea as my idea all the first people I worked with they were all nobody's now she's like the biggest artist in the world and people have no

**[0:45]:** cuz it's you pumped up yeah here's the original version this is something people can see how music is created I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like wow look maybe I can do it too a you're so good at this me and Ed Sheeran you guys wrote five number ones for other artists are you able to talk about the songs that yeah yeah let's do it okay listen to

**[1:13]:** this oh my gosh hi here we are again with the one and only one of my musical Heroes Benny Blanco where am I supposed to look there's so many cameras do I look at this one so this one's on me this one's on you this one's on there and this one's on us hello hello hello hello okay I'm saying hello oh look at that one okay okay we're here and we're back Benny it is such an honor to see you again I wow you're so Juiced up when you first came in here you were so tired and now you're at like Peak energy well now I've got you you were starting to play me the demos and it just like brought like energy and joy to me so quickly like it's insane I nobody no first of all like has anyone ever like heard these before no besides the people who made them which is

**[2:07]:** yeah yeah probably I don't think anyone's ever heard anything this is insane this is amazing you're breaking ground you're helping me break ground I got nothing this was this was a big idea from Benny Benny wanted to go over a lot of the demos and you know one of the the pieces that is really important to to me for this series is of course to shine a light on the people and stories behind music mus but it's also to inspire the next generation of creatives of course and I think that that's really like this is something people can see how music is created I think it's going to drive a lot of people to be like wow look maybe I can do it too a you're so good at this you inspire me I get inspired that means the world you inspire me though Benny um before we get into it a lot A lot

**[2:53]:** has changed like since our last interview which by the way so many people loved so many people loved our last conversation so to do this again dream for me well I mean you you got engaged oh I did I did get engaged I did get engaged that's true that's true that's true I'm engaged amazing I know one of the songs we may go over um today I believe was the first time you might have worked with Selena is that right yeah probably same old love same old yeah maybe yeah I think that might be the first time was that 2013 I looked it up I think it's like 2015 or so when did Same Old

**[3:35]:** Love come

**[3:39]:** out it came out in 2015 I think we worked earlier cuz I saw it kill him with kindness what year is that I think it was 2016 oh oh yeah two uh yeah cuz we started uh Sam 11 2013 or something the end of 2013 or something that makes sense you started same old love at the end I think so took two years some like normal for like sometimes sometimes I have songs uh I have a song that by the time it came out it was probably 8 years old the seven eight years old the um's that song called Animals by uh Maroon 5 that song was like 8 years old by the time really yeah by the time it came out wait I I think I what hold on hold on hold on yeah it was originally we had made like a I don't even know the password to this computer it's so old

**[4:38]:** there we go uh by the way this is super sick I love this okay wait this beat what is it uh oh yeah we had started this beat so long I think it was for like B yeah wait hold on wow okay okay wait wait wait hold on hold on okay okay okay this is this is just the idea like me and Shel backc have been working on a beat and then he sent me a thing over a voice note listen it's like poor

**[5:25]:** quality down any

**[5:33]:** this was through a voice note that him him recording and then it be and then it and then it becomes like

**[5:46]:** this baby I you you down

**[5:54]:** andal like anal what about you think you I

**[6:05]:** can I mean songs songs like this take so much shap you know I mean like there's so many different versions of these songs like like okay perfect example I had there was a friend of mine that I signed very early on in my career named Omar Mal and and he he was from Virginia from my hometown and I remember they were they were at home back in Virginia he had still lived in Virginia at the time he's like at home with with uh my guy robopop Dano and they were all just like coming up with ideas and I remember there was like a kernel of an idea that they sent me and this was the original original

**[6:57]:** thing watch I don't even know when it comes hold on oh

**[7:08]:** yeah on you where the time baby it's all wrong what of the plans we made for Happy Ever After exist and then and then you look at like this then then I was in a hotel or no I was on on a train and I like started producing it up and then we brought shell back into it and then and then here's like a slightly more produced up version I don't even know if this has no this is this is my first attempt at like a little thing and then we

**[7:55]:** have is that and then this is shellback thing oh my God and then and then and then we came up with like a verse this is where the verse

**[8:21]:** happened and all the lyrics mean nothing like

**[8:29]:** like it's not but it's like kind of there yeah like sometimes there's like there's thing but like like like and then and then this was the first time Adam ever got on

**[8:46]:** it and then it

**[8:51]:** becomes and it's just like uh you know these songs build up like I mean you look at like like take example like this okay watch this okay so okay so like these are like okay so you take let me try to find the I don't even know where the first one is here listen watch listen so so the lyrics we don't even know what they're going to be yet watch it's

**[9:23]:** insane tell me you feel like tell me the

**[9:42]:** wow so it's like you know what I'm saying but there's but there's always the right like consonants and syllables and like phonetics like watch but then the chorus has a little bit in it watch

**[10:04]:** yeah so there's like you know it's starting to and then it like the songs they get you know they get more along the way why and we like started a little bit more production then wait let me see what the oh wait wait there's another one before that oh wait oh yeah this was this was like the first time we had uh this is like the first time me and Adam got the lyrics right this was the first

**[10:52]:** time if you feel like it take me away and make it okay I swear I'll be

**[11:06]:** now you want to know something insane about this okay so here's the whole story about how this song happened okay this story is insane I'm excited okay so I'm going to take you down a down a a little story time okay so the first time Omar had been working at his house in Virginia okay and my manager um was working at Atlantic Records at that time and we all started working on this demo and this was the this was a

**[11:52]:** demo you so listen close hear my thoughts in every no oh oh

**[12:11]:** so we had that okay okay I go in We Do the song with Travy everything is is going all according to plan and I remember we were like who are we going to put on the chorus okay and I had I had just been at a Sarah burelis concert okay randomly my business manager was like come to the Sarah Bella's Concert I want you to meet her I get to the concert her manager at the time was a guy named Jordie who unfortunately passed away since since you know since then and he said hey I also manag the band Maroon 5 and he said they've never written with anyone else before but I really think you and him would be great and it's like a loud concert and I said okay you know hook me up we'll you know do it blah blah blah I start thinking I'm like this was right when Train's whole

**[13:11]:** Hey soul sister got big and I was like oh my God like you know Maroon 5 was obviously huge had the but like they were like um they weren't like as poppy as they once were at this time okay and I remember I was like we got to put Adam Lavine and Maroon 5 on this song and I remember going to like a a radio person and saying like this is I really think this is going to be great and they were like Adam Lavine Maroon 5 like that isn't that like a little bit like you know I don't know I don't think that's going to work and I was like no there's something about it I really think we could and I remember we go to Adam and he like never wants to get on a song he he's like okay but I have to like make it my own I have to change

**[13:52]:** the lyrics I have to you know write this bridge I got to do all this stuff we we get him to do it he loves the song so much and he's like I want this song so bad I said let me give you another song I have an idea like for another song I had no idea at that time I like that's when we we we hurry we make moves like Jagger in the meantime I'm like I'm like in a hotel room going back and forth trying to make it happen it was like Jagger was the song you were trying to make as your idea as my idea so so we we get the song done he loves that song he stays on Stereo Hearts everyone at Radio thinks I'm an idiot it winds up being huge success number one we have Moves Like Jagger the problem is they have another song at Radio at

**[14:42]:** this time called never going to leave this bed and his manager comes to me and he said hey we have this other song Adam's going to be on this new television show it's kind of like American Idol and I was like uh I was like yeah but American Idol already exists he's like no it's going to be like bigger than American Idol and I really think it's going to be a big thing and like the we're going to have him perform and Premiere this song on the TV show and I was like okay I was like but there's already American Idol is there going to be an and he's like I'm telling you just trust me so his label inner scope at the time wants him to play never going to leave this bed and they think he's going to play it but Jordy at the time the manager was like we're just going to

**[15:33]:** sneak and put this song on and not tell the label we're going to perform this song and we're going to release it that night they perform the song his record label goes you idiot what are you doing you're supposed to play the single we have at radio right now why would you do that we wake up the next morning it's number one in 85 countries okay the the label owner goes change the song at Radio immediately and they changed the song never look back you know that started such a great journey with you know me and Maroon 5 we probably made five or six number ones after that and really like you know we believed in each other to make these records you know yeah to trust each other and you know Adam had never written with anybody else before so it it's like a big step in the right direction for something that lasted

**[16:28]:** like a really long time is really cool wow yeah so you never know you never know Omar was making a demo to Stereo Hearts in his parents basement and then five months later had two billboard number ones that's insane with somebody that everybody was counting against every single person told us Stereo Hearts wouldn't work a moov like Jagger is not going to work every person so it's like I always I I don't know I always feel like I always want to go against what everyone is saying because I don't know I just got to you got to trust your heart yeah what made these songs what made these songs feel like you were so like yes these are the ones these are the ones I believe in it's so hard to explain to someone who doesn't like traditionally make music but I and I I I actually always want to know if a listener feels

**[17:23]:** this too when I know the song is one of those songs I get this like strange feeling in like my stomach or chest like right when you're about to like kiss someone for the first time or you're like going to get hit by a car and it's like it kind of takes your breath away and then I always smile and I can't stop smiling like when someone plays something so sick and I'm just like like and you can't stop so whenever I get those feelings I usually am just like oh I have to go with that cuz I like that so at least a few people might did you know that right from the demo or when Adam got on them those songs I knew right away the second I I was like oh this is it and I just have to trust my intuition I knew they were great I'm never like one of

**[18:07]:** those guys that's like this is a hit song This I knew they were amazing and they made me feel a certain way and I hope they made other people feel that way because I just want to share I just want to share music that makes me feel like so excited because it I hopefully it can make another person feel excited I'm not even thinking about it in like the hit capacity if it's a hit that's great otherwise it's still a good day for me I put out a song that I love what I love most of all is like no one it sounded like no one believed in those songs yeah a lot of big songs people don't really believe in until it's too late until they're huge until they are big yeah it's crazy it's it's so crazy to me wow yeah what's another song We're supposed to talk about um I got we

**[18:55]:** have Diamonds Rihanna okay uh would love Selena okay Julia Michaels issues okay you just did moves like Jagger okay I want to tell you I want to tell you a story about about issues this is a crazy story that not that many people know okay Julia Michaels I'm tucking my arm right here oh yeah I'm getting comfy for this one Julia Michaels yeah incredible songwriter okay she was like just starting to get big okay she had a few hits under her Bel and I think it was the day sorry went number one she had just broken up with her boyfriend she came into the studio she was crying she felt terrible and I remember us talking in the lounge we got her like cupcakes or something and champagne and she was crying but she was like happy at the same time time and I said you know let's write a song she was like I

**[20:03]:** don't know we wrote a song with with you know Stargate and Justin and I always was like I always wanted to have one of those songs that had like an orchestra behind it like Salam Remy was so good at doing that and like like I love that song bust the windows by Jasmine Sullivan I love uh you know I also love like uh Unfaithful by Rihanna those where it was like strings and I was like we have to bring that back so we we we started playing some stuff and then issues just like fell out of the sky okay and Julia just like it it just happened so quickly and I remember everyone wanted that song everyone wanted to sing that song they wanted that song to come out as their project and Julia called me okay you know days days weeks after and she said Benny I think I want to become an artist

**[21:01]:** and I think I want to use that song and I said that's amazing let's do it some other people didn't necessarily believe in that same vision and they were like what are you talking about this song's right here it it it it's huge there's an artist right here there's so many artists fighting over this and I just remember telling everyone I was like if she wants the song give her the song it's her heart and soul and she sells it so well like and it's a song We'll make another song If it's not you know if it's not a thing it's it's it's it just felt right in that moment and so many people were against it she didn't even have a record deal yet and I remember we finally got her to have the song everyone same thing everyone was so nervous about it nobody thought it was going to be this big thing

**[21:57]:** and she put the song out it connects like a and that year she literally got nominated for best new artists and song of the year so it was like this song that we did that nobody believed in no for for her to be the artist they just wanted some huge artist that was already successful and I you know for me it's like that's cool but like breaking a new artist and like bringing a new artist with so much personality and identity to the world is so much better to me than you know just doing a song for like a big person you know all the all the first people I worked with they were all nobody's Kesha wasn't big Katy Perry wasn't big I didn't work with like a big artist till a little bit later and then I was like oh this is cool too you know what I mean it's like when we

**[22:55]:** work with like Rihanna I was like oh my God this is a moment now that's a crazy story okay okay this is an insane story did I ever tell you the diamond story I've heard glimpses of The Diamond

**[23:12]:** story but I've never heard never we didn't do it I we didn't do it together okay here we go I'm ready this is so long ago I'm so old uh well I'm just thinking this is like when we did this it was probably 2010 11 um wow so so I remember me and Stargate are sitting there we're making some beats everything's all good we got all these beats happening and we loved this one that we made and I said oh my God we got to send this to like Eminem or Kanye we like sent it and I remember Paul Rosenberg M&M's manager was like we love this thing and I was like oh that's so sick fast forward like eight months never heard anything from that ca's in the studio she' finished all of her music for the day okay and this was like before Uber was big or anything and she was like I'm going to call a car she called a car they said oh

**[24:21]:** the car is like 18 to 20 minutes away she said okay well I guess pull up another thing well wait we pull up the beat to Diamonds in 15 minutes song lyrics Melody harmonies full demo done okay her car gets here she had a few minutes to spare to go to the bathroom okay we I remember Stargate was like we're going to send this to Rihanna and I was like I don't know I was like I don't you know I didn't I I couldn't hear the song yet I was like I don't know uh no maybe we shouldn't I was like also you really looked up to Eminem for the longest time right and yeah I just like didn't hear the song Sometimes you don't hear the song and I was just like I don't know I don't know if this one's like our best maybe we should send something else and then yeah it

**[25:22]:** and I was like I don't know about this song and then they were like you got to trust us you got to trust us and I said you know what you you guys know Rihanna so well let's let's see what happens and then I remember I remember getting the call where they were like Rihanna loves this and then they made one change uh shine bright like a diamond was only in like the intro and then they put it over that they put it over that part in the this guy Tata that works with uh Jay-Z had like a brilliant idea that just like really made it so catchy it kept doing that part and they were like she wants to cut it and I was like okay and then I remember I was with I was randomly with CA at like a furniture store or something and we get a call and they said she

**[26:16]:** cut it last night it's coming this was like Thursday she cut it last night it's coming out on Monday and I was like wait what and I remember uh being in a meeting with a record label and they were like yeah they're like Rihanna's looking for songs like I don't know we're going to put something out in the next 6 months the label didn't even know she was putting that song out wow okay and they were like we're putting that song out on Monday and I was like what I was like this is and I remember listening to it and just being like Oh my God this is like the biggest song in the world randomly around the same time I get a call from Paul Rosenberg and he's like hey m really loves that beat and he's like I think he might be like doing something to it and I was like wait what

**[27:04]:** I was like we Rihanna I haven't heard from you in like a year Rihanna uh Rihanna's putting the song out he was like what no and then I was like what and then somehow it all worked out Rihanna puts out the song like three days later it becomes the biggest song in the world by far and yeah it was it was it was crazy once her voice was on it she's so good at making a song like bringing a song from like a seven to like a 500 like it's insane but songs rarely don't come out that quickly like it doesn't usually happen the only other time I remember that happening was when we did kesh's we are who we are that song's great okay we made that song and I remember this is a crazy we're made we made the song and they were like we need to put that song song out in

**[27:59]:** like 4 days like we were finishing like the repack it was like the last thing we did and I remember the day we were going to finish it we were all like oh let's take Edibles okay and we took these Edibles it was like there was like this french guy named billboard who's a producer who like gave us all Edibles and I remember I like took it and I was like oh I feel feel cool and I went to the computer and I sat down at the computer and the computer like froze and we had to restart it and I remember when it as it was restarting I was like I like short circuited and I was like whoa I was like what's happening to me and then I was I was just like um and it was hitting me so hard the edible hit me so hard that I remember walking out and the

**[28:54]:** the assistant looked at me and he was like you don't look so good and everything was like in slow motion and he was like and I was just like and I like didn't know who I was and I remember losing my mind and I was so high I was at Conway the recording studio and it's like all outdoors and I like went over to the guy and I was like can I get some food and I like ordered food I was losing my mind I called my brother to like pick me up I got so freaked out that I ran and hid in the bushes and started crying and like I remember like they like my brother came to pick me up they like found me and they like d i I had no shoes on I like took my clothes I had like and they like dragged me to the uh to the car

**[29:55]:** and I remember Kesha being like um hey do you want and I was like don't talk to me I just remember yelling don't talk to me I go home I don't remember a thing after that I sleep for like 24 hours okay then we have like one day to finish the song So I go back and I finish the song So if you realize the the let me see if I have it on this what's that song We Are Who We Are okay

**[30:26]:** so okay watch this is it letting me play it okay so if you notice please update my browser remind me later I haven't opened this computer in so long okay here we go watch okay so if you notice we had so little time that we didn't have time to record her on a bridge okay so so I had 30 minutes to finish the song okay so if you listen to the second verse of this song

**[31:01]:** watch okay okay second verse didn't have time to finish the song so the bridge is literally just DJ Turn It Up a million times in a row listen watch but you never

**[31:21]:** notice yeah this part's great DJ Turn

**[31:34]:** so you done 30 minutes less I had no time we had to turn the thing in so I that's literally I was like what can we put there we have no more vocal swimmer and then I was like DJ Turn It Up Up Up Up and I and it just worked and people loved it and people have no idea people cuz it's not like get you pumped up yeah isn't that crazy that is insane I like before you even started playing the song that was the part I was singing in my head yeah exactly everyone sings that part literally it's literally just the

**[32:14]:** verse that's it that's wow that's what happens do you also have diamonds the demo let me see if I have it on this computer this famous video of CA playing it I there was like some sort of conference yeah I oh yeah here we go here's the original version with

**[32:45]:** that that's

**[32:58]:** we like

**[33:25]:** diamonds there's wow there no Shine Bright

**[33:37]:** Like There's No shine bright like a diamond there's no shine bright like a diamond cuz then we did an edit where it

**[33:50]:** goes it makes it so much better makes it so much better

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**[35:01]:** immediately jumped at the chance because I only want to work with Brands I truly believe it and by far this bag I believe is the best bag for musicians artists creatives or Creator but if you need more than just a backpack they also have camera bags travel packs check-in luggage carry-ons luggages anything you need as a creative nomadic has got you I've been using nomadic for years now and I'm so excited to say that that nomadic is officially giving behind the--all listeners 20% off their first purchase so if you need a new camera bag travel pack backpack or luggage check out nomad.com wall to get yours today and thank you so much to nomadic for partnering with us at behind thewall and now back to one of my favorite interviews I've ever done Betty Blanco it it's so amazing to witness and watch I've only been around a few artists like like that you know

**[35:58]:** CA literally records her songs in 5 minutes you play a beat she says you play like one second she goes no no no stop it she goes I like that one after one second okay then she goes and she presses record on her little laptop and she usually either lies on the ground or is in a blanket lying in a fully fetal position with like a blanket on a couch she goes and she's like and just like singing a demo she does three passes of it and then she goes okay which one's the verse which one's the chorus and which one's the pre then she goes okay I like that then she goes okay give me five minutes and then she she writes it down then she goes okay let's record she goes open eight tracks and then she knows how many harmonies then she records it in 3 seconds Esther Dean was

**[36:52]:** like that too wow yeah it's just like some of these people it takes me so long to finish anything like even like after she does that I like sit there and I like just like cry over each Le and I'm like should it be the or it like and it's like like I'm so I'm I'm so tortured by my own brain and they just do it so quickly so they Rec like they they write they're doing the song they get it out Demo's there how long does it take to get from a demo to a finished song then with me a long time how long is a long time sometimes a week sometimes a year sometimes three years sometimes two months sometimes eight years I sit on songs until it's like the perfect time with the perfect artist because I think everything has to align the right way you know MH and it's just like

**[37:52]:** sometimes it works right then and there sometimes it doesn't how it might be different every time but like when you are starting a song and doing a song with an artist like do you come with Beats do you like try to make it right on the spot do you let the artist like lead the way does it depend on the person it's different every time you know some artists you know I you know you know what I try to explain it as to people it's kind of like okay it's kind of like going to the gym okay okay and you're the artist is bench pressing they're sitting down okay they're lifting up those reps they're bench at 200 and some artists need you to spot them a little bit more and some artists you just are there just like kind of just like in case something happens some artists you're like helping them a little

**[38:41]:** bit some artists you're like kind of pulling the bar up all the way on and I look at it like that I just try to get in where I fit in some artists I write the song Some artists I help them craft the song Some artists I stay out of the way and then just step in when I need to let's say you're doing a new session right now with an artist you really want to work with is there an example of an artist you really want to work with right now make one up you let's say yeah okay let's say you're working with me okay I'm working with you what what would you do how does the first session go yeah yeah okay I'm working with you yeah okay well I know you're not a morning person so I start the session later okay okay so the session starts a little later okay you

**[39:26]:** come to my house uhhuh I like doing it in the house more than a studio cuz it's less pressure studio is so much pressure feels comfortable in a house studio so much pressure I get so nervous I usually make majority of my songs that I've made in the studio are made in a lounge because I don't like to be in the studio I don't even use the real studio um that's great and then you you come in okay we talk and I'm like I'm like how are you and you're like oh I'm good I'm like no how are you and you're like I'm good and I'm like no really how are you and you're like I hate this I hate that and then we start talking and we get we're Gathering our little story and then we might make music we might just talk for a few days um we might make some music that

**[40:12]:** sucks um and then hopefully something good will come out and we'll eat a bunch of food we'll laugh and I don't ever Force the process ever I'm never like we only have 30 minutes to make a song If it has to be a hit like I'm just like oh besides when you have a deadline and they're like we need this song finished a song finished I'm okay with finishing a song but not creating the idea I don't no one's like putting some sometimes that naturally happens like you know with you know with Kesha We thought blah blah blah was going to be the first single and then in right before we were R turning in the album we made Tik Tock Your Love Is My Drug what and yeah yeah yeah all that stuff okay I told you the California girls they had both the singles done and then I got there and I was

**[41:06]:** sitting in the lounge did I tell you that story on our last thing the I know about Teenage Dream being the hardest song to like eight days oh but I didn't tell you I didn't tell you the story of like what happened all I know is that Snoop Dogg and Katie were in in the viral video happened oh my God okay okay real quick I thought I told you this right I stopped flying okay and I didn't want to fly anymore okay are you still that are do you still fly or do you not flying I'm still not flying a lot it's so stupid um do you fly a lot I fly when I like do you hate it I I don't I I kind of just like driving personally really yeah personally where do you live again Arizona do you drive in Arizona like to the gym that's it like if I need to

**[41:55]:** go some else like that's still Phoenix area oh it's so pretty over there yeah it's just very hot especially in the summer are you going to move I was plan I was literally supposed to move um a couple weeks back are you going to do it we'll see what yeah what made you not want to uh the day that I was supposed to move out here everything started and then my sub leas got cancelled because of everything that's happened need to find another you want be out here every time I come out here more exciting stuff like this happens and I feel like like I've been in Arizona all my life so it's probably time to yeah I feel like if you're out here you'll be doing these every day probably it's crazy I don't even know how you do this many from being in Arizona it's such a quick flight though yeah uh here

**[42:47]:** over Arizona to Burbank was 54 minutes that's crazy isn't that crazy that's crazy I've driven it a million times you've driven to to where Arizona really you've been to Arizona been to Arizona 75 times like for for for like what uh driving through to New York uh on like road trips you drive from California to New York yeah I take a boat to Europe yeah but that that's that's a cool story yeah but and also it was filmed that I've done it not filmed how many times have you done the boat probably like six uh really yeah and I I drive to newor New York very often I'm doing it inek are you driving or some what do you do on the drives to New York I take a tour bus and I like hang out with all my friends and like go to fun places that sounds enjoyable that sounds better than a flight

**[43:40]:** yeah I do it all the time I'm doing it in two weeks I just did it a month ago okay so I'm on my way

**[43:52]:** to I'm on my way to to La okay at this point I'm not driving on a tour bus at this point I'm like driving in like a Rav 4 with like my brother and like a bunch of people in the car and it's like we're like stopping every 4 hours cuz we like are tired so it takes like two week it took me like a week and a half to get to New York I or to La I was in New York to get to La I get to La I get in the studio with Katie and all them and they were like oh we did it we finished the album and I was like what I like just got there they're like yeah we got the first single it's the song called part of me and then the second single is this one called The One That Got Away yeah and I was like

**[44:39]:** oh okay so I remember I went to the lounge and I made two beats while I was just waiting okay I'm I might have let's see let's see let's let's take a little I'm I made two beats uh the first beat I made what's it called was

**[45:13]:** this how did this beat come about how did you what did you do for this we had a little teeny keyboard and a guitar plugged into a system so much smaller than even this it was just like a rollway system and I remember remember I remember we were like we were we were just making ideas what's I what's I'm trying to remember what Teenage Dream is called oh I think Teenage Dream is this no uh hold on I have it in here some let's see oh it's this

**[46:00]:** and it was like that's why the song sounds so shitty it's like like recorded like it's everything's recorded just like no plugin like and

**[46:12]:** just that was a that was a keyboard that I got for $20 at a garage

**[46:24]:** sale and I remember Max walks by the lounge getting a cookie and he was like what's that and I was like oh it's just a thing we we did everyone comes in Melody starts happening Melodies to that and California Girls done that night and I remember I remember everyone was like yeah I guess it's okay like I remember like yeah it's okay and well cuz you never know yeah and then over the next like week or two we made those songs and then those wound up being the first singles and you just like it's just I don't know music's crazy what I find interesting is a lot of these songs have that uh you you were playing it earlier I forgot which one it was but it was like just the basis of the the parts of and it was like the actual sing ofation but not the word like the melody and then someone

**[47:29]:** comes in and toplines it yeah sometimes it happens like that sometimes the words all come at once like it's never there's not sometimes I'm taking a and I just hear a whole chorus in my head I hear the whole thing is there what what's a song where that happened so many songs do you know how Dynamite happened Dynamite's crazy and that's a crazy song to be on the toilet for no Dynamite wasn't the toilet Dynamite I was at at the gym and at this point I never like worked out for some reason I was just at a gym I didn't have my cell phone with me I asked my brother I said give me your cell phone right now I was on the treadmill and I was

**[48:17]:** like and I was like oh my God that's such a good idea and I remember I went to the studio early before anyone got there and they didn't have uh they didn't have the uh the synths plugged in because and I didn't know I don't know how to do anything with electronics so if you listen to that song the main sound in the chorus is a grand piano going

**[48:45]:** D because I didn't even have a synth so that became the thing and I'm not a great player so it's just two notes it's like and so many of those songs I made back then were just like they're all two notes because I'm not that good at playing and I didn't even know you could change the grid type on Pro Tools so that's why all my first songs like Big songs are all 120 bpms because I didn't even know you could change the tempo okay I'm I'm an Ableton user can you explain for an aeton user the default Tempo when you go to Pro Tools is 120 is that what it is for Ableton yeah I didn't know you could change a tempo so I just made all my songs in 120 clearly it worked I guess it did at that moment yeah do you find that like Tempo really impacts a song yeah I'm

**[49:37]:** changing tempos all the time I'm like going up down up down like now it's so easy to move them around and stuff and I'm moving them to different Keys doing all sorts of do so last time we talked about like how you make like different food for different artists yeah what is like with do you find that like certain artist like different food like do you make a specific food for yeah I make every every experience different for everyone like what's your favorite food um I am a big my mom makes this really incredible chocolate chimp pumpkin bread okay so that's your favorite food chocolate chip pumpkin bread but made by my mom specifically yeah okay so I'd bring your mother I'd call your mother and I would ask her I would beg her for the recipe before you came in and then like like you would tell me this in our first session that

**[50:30]:** your mom's is my favorite so your favorite and somehow I'd find out your mom's information get the recipe and then like have it the next time you came in that's crazy yeah that's what I would do for you you're you're a very like very personable kind of like person just like personal kind of person yeah um the the the the other two songs how much time do we have left to do stuff so I know we have until 11: so 30 more minutes so then what do we who do we we have blah blah blah we have edge here and divide also I mean you just have like so many these were the songs that I was given but I mean like you're you're you're I mean I'm fine to go um probably edar and Divi would be cool to go into because we could um we cuz not only did we write so many

**[51:30]:** songs uh like for that album there's like five number ones that spawn for other artists that is crazy I heard you say that yeah are you able to talk about the songs that yeah yeah let's do it that's insane first of all I saw I don't know if you said that in inter you I I don't think I've ever really like dug into it you guys wrote five number ones for other artists I think so are

**[51:54]:** we filming yeah yeah I guess we are okay let's talk about divide yes um yeah look divide was so interesting okay the whole story to this is actually pretty crazy let's get I'm like stretched into a thing okay

**[52:18]:** so how I met Ed is like such an have I even told you this before I've heard it but okay so how we met I my manager used to work for Atlantic called me up and he said hey there's this guy who's just starting to put out music in the UK and I think he's really good and I think we should work with him and I said okay play me a song and they played me a team a team had come out incredible by the way and I was like I got to work with this man right now he was coming to America and I had email at the time I don't have email anymore but I had an email and I remember someone put us on email and Ed was like hey nice to meet you and I was like I have to that's all I wrote on the email I said I have

**[53:16]:** to I said hi I have to and everyone was like why did you do that like like he's not going to write back like he's never going everyone meeing like the people yeah all the people on the email my manager and then like a day later he wrote back me too and I was like okay now I know I'm going to be friends with this guy we met up for a drink in New York City we had like The Best Time Ever we recorded two songs the first day don't and some song that I thought was the big song so I was like we have to work on this song but then don't was the one we wound up working on and don't such an interesting story because we made this song and then he was like he was like Rick rubin's going to produce my album I was like oh my God that's amazing

**[54:08]:** and I remember he was like Rick wants to take a stab at your song so he took a stab at it and it was like all live music and I remember Rick played it for me and I was like ah I was like Rick I was like I love like the way mine sounds mine sounds better I think and Rick was like well why don't we take all of your electronic sounds and the ones you did with Ed and time them to the live musicians so it has a better feel and I was like that's going to take so long I have like 30 kicks and 30 snare and he was like he was like well the engineer can like put it together and like the engineer started putting it together and me and me and Rick like went around his house and like we like picked eggs and like did and we like laid

**[55:04]:** with no shirts on and like and I don't know we did like all this crazy stuff and we were like he was like showing me like underwater like aerobics oh my gosh and like 5 hours later we came back in and the man had finally finished it and he like played it and I was like I don't know man I think I like the original way better and he goes all right he goes where the shot in the engineer I did like five hours of work and then I remember like me and Ed were like cutting new vocals and and then we played it for Rick and he was like listening like he listened like three times in a row and he was like this song makes me feel orange and I was like what and he was like it makes me feel orange and then I was like oh and then I was like

**[55:54]:** um well what do we need to do to fix it and he goes you'll figure it out and then he walked out of the room and then we thought about it so long and that's like the genius of Rick he like you like sit there and then we start fixing all the things that we think are wrong in the song and I think he knew we were going to do that so then like after we were done we played it for him and he was like it's perfect and I was like did he just like get into my mind and tell me what to fix without telling me what to fix I was like this song does make me feel Orange um and then I remember after the success of that song uh on that album and that was like that was Ed's first number one it radio like and it was like yeah and

**[56:36]:** he was like whoa and I remember he called me and he's like hey um let's make some more music and I said well when when are we going to make music and he said well I'm on tour for a while and I said why don't I just come on tour with you and he said whoa I've never had anyone come on tour with me I said yeah why don't we just set up a studio at every Arena and then or stadium and and I'll just be on tour with you and I went out for a week and it turned into two years and wow we worked on an album for two years and obviously you know it was so great it was Ed's biggest album it sold like 40 million copies it was like one of the biggest albums ever and I was like whoo this is insane an album that we just made like

**[57:27]:** on a tour bus in the back of studios in his house and stuff we never worked in a real Studio it was all done just like whatever we had at the time and then you know it was so interesting because not only did we get the success of that we we made like so many other big songs for other people during that time like during that time not only did we make like you know have like you know Castle on the hill Perfect all these big songs we yeah we we were able to somehow get all these and I didn't you don't even notice when you're in it like that but it's like look it's

**[58:12]:** crazy watch watch this okay some of these songs took such different shape like listen to this

**[58:31]:** you won't even know what this is yet

**[58:49]:** watch Breath

**[58:56]:** you shouldn't be drowning on your own if you feel your sing I willp over C for

**[59:16]:** you

**[59:22]:** then it's crazy right like and these songs they they become these like different worlds like and and you know you look at like let me see let me see I even have this song I heard uh Ed say that he doesn't even remember writing that song I remember he said that he got a text from Diplo that was like or like from you or him and they like were thinking about putting this song out he's like I don't even remember what that was yeah is crazy I know it's insane and then you know you look at like I wonder if I have it on this computer this is this is a crazy one one sec okay so me and Ed Sheeran are you know obviously you've seen the video of us of course of us making love yourself we we're in Canada we're on our way to America okay we just we we got invited

**[1:00:39]:** to Drake's like Afterparty for like his album with future and we were like oh my God we get there we have the best night ever we're like wasted we go to a pizza place that's closed and we like bang on the door we're like please and they like let us have like one last pizza we're eating pizza we get back on the bus we decide to make a song because we want to stay up because they're going to wake us up anyways uh at the uh at the border patrol in like two hours we make a song Here's the song we make

**[1:01:20]:** all listen to the noise in the background of the bus look look listen the ringing yeah

**[1:01:33]:** listen you get my you think you broke my heart go for goodness you think I'm crying on my own and I didn't want toite a song cuz

**[1:01:54]:** I so it's like you have you have these moments and I remember we did that song and we were like oh yeah it's cool and then it becomes the this like big song and there's like so many like that like you look like we were in a hotel in Philly yeah okay listen to this so we're in a hotel in Philly okay Blake Slack's my intern at the time it's the one day he didn't come to the room cuz we were like oh we're just going to like try some ideas and we sat down and I remember we ordered food and and like the old lady uh there was like an old lady who was like bringing the food in like who worked at the hotel and I remember she she Ed opened the door and she went she was like and she almost dropped all the food and she was like oh my sorry

**[1:02:56]:** and she like I just remember that moment so vividly and then me and Ed started doing this song and he was like yeah it's okay and then and then it was and I remember we pitched it up right away cuz he was like we should just give this to like a girl or something look this is like first demo and then we pitched it

**[1:03:21]:** up when I was young I fell in love we used to hold hands man and that was enough then we grew up started to touch we used to kiss underneath the light on the back of the bus I know your daddy didn't me didn't me when I you were way out window Sak out used

**[1:03:46]:** theast and theet baby you know I just want to leave tonight we can go

**[1:04:07]:** anywhere like it's it's just to to me the like when stuff like that happens it's magic we made that whole album we made so many songs for other people and for you yeah yeah and for me and then

**[1:04:23]:** we also made that song uh during that time we made what was that big song um amarie song 2002 we made that song during that time with Julia yeah yeah yeah we made that was all made during that album like we made I think we had I think we had five the day y'all wrote dive too yeah that was the day we wrote I know it's crazy it's so crazy I have a dumb question yes what okay you have like East Side 1.0 4K for J yeah what's your organization process like and then what does that mean like so I was like oh I I this is like oh for okay got it and I get that one yeah yeah yeah so like we we just have like all we're always I'm always just getting ideas I get them in the middle of the night and I'm like oh my God I'm like I wonder

**[1:05:15]:** if khed would like this thing and then send it you know and it always just I don't know I feel I feel like my best ideas always come like at the worst times when I don't want them to come it's always like when I'm in like an important conversation with someone I'll be like talking to them and I'll be like listening to them and I'm like oh this is an idea and I have to like pretend or actually keep listening to them and retaining the information but also think about the idea think about the idea at the same time you know Ed shearan used to do we would be on tour we be working on a song backstage be backstage okay we're working on the song and they're like Ed 10 minutes and he's like okay he's like working on the song Some people come in he's signing autographs while we're singing a song while

**[1:06:06]:** we're working on it he's like taking pictures still working on it and then they're like 3 minutes and then he's like still working and they're like two minutes they come in they like put the thing on his head and then they're like one minute and then he's like keep working on the song I'll be right back he goes performs for two hours okay then he comes back and he was like okay I was thinking about the precourse while I was on stage I was like what are you talking about and he's like I was thinking about it and I said how can you think about it while you're singing a song to 80,000 people I can't even like I can't even remember what I had for breakfast and somehow he does it just comes back and then came back and would like lay the chorus down right then like while he's playing the songs just

**[1:06:47]:** think about it's insane I'm so stupid I'm like these you said you said uh that you do that as well right you're able to like listen to someone and come up with an idea in real time it's true it's true but I'm but I'm not doing it in front of 880,000 people I'm doing it in front of like my mom when she's talking to me you know when like your mom calls you and like you just go uhhuh yes uh-huh y uhhuh like it's like that I'm not like I'm not like in a shootout and like and like in front of like 990,000 people singing like 18 while I know it's and making everyone cry but it's just like second nature to these artists 100% it's crazy I feel like this is a good interview I I think this is phenomenal who what else were we going to talk about we we can always take

**[1:07:33]:** this out if this is not something that you'd want to leave in but for Julia Julia was like one of the first interviews I ever had ever um told me the story of sorry she told me that the same day that sorryi hit number one they wrote the song But same old love also went number one on radio the same day oh yeah and she was saying that um but then she she talked about like all these artist who wanted it and there's only one that's leaked onto YouTube by another artist who was it Charlie XCX oh yeah yeah yeah yeah who was the person who helped co-write same old love yeah yeah yeah which is crazy think about um was there something about that demo and that song that everyone wanted issues from it was just like it's just Julia was so Raw on it and she sounded so the demo is literally what's

**[1:08:24]:** out oh that's sick it's it's literally what's out it it it's there there's like minor changes but it was so raw and it was a song that I feel like so many people could relate to so many you know so many people in general it's just like yeah I got issues and it's and it's you know it was one of those moments where I remember every time I would like Drive in a car and I would see someone singing at the top of their lwn that song like like by themselves and like those are the moments where I'm just like we made the right decision or like when you're at a concert and you see like thousands of people singing the song with their children and their and I knew we made the right decision by giving Julia that song it might not have been the right decision in the moment maybe there was a

**[1:09:16]:** million other people that wanted that song but like Charlie's a testament to everything Charlie's written songs for so many other people she's been around for ever she's been around I worked with Charlie when she was 14 years old wow okay I was her one on her first trip to America I don't think she had any songs out really in America yet like she had like she had just done a few shows and I remember how talented she always was and it's just like sometimes people just get their flowers like a little bit later than look now she's like the biggest artist in the world and she's saying exactly what she wants and you know she's Paving the way for so many young artist that can be themselves and they don't have to fit the Norms of like pop music and you can say what you want to say and I I think we're in a

**[1:10:04]:** really interesting time right now artists like Chapel rone like those artists would never exist before true and it's just like now kids get to pick what they want there's not like labels holding back barriers being like you have to listen to this song and we're going to feed this down your throat like until you vomit and like it no there's people like who like oh my God this girl chap Aron is saying that like I Vibe with and yeah maybe she's a little bit different than what is like known as like pop music but this is my pop this is what I want to listen to you know and I feel like I feel like there's so many artists that in 2010 couldn't exist the way that they do now and I think that's really cool that's really cool that that fans get to decide who gets to be big there might be an artist

**[1:10:56]:** who's unknown yesterday and today they have the biggest song in the world and like that's so powerful to me wow yeah it's I feel like we live in such a like an artist dominated part now versus how it was back in the day which is amazing yeah it's amazing I people want these you know especially for females I feel like I feel like we're in an era right now were like the females are like reigning Supreme and doing s you know everyone you know it it it's it's so great that like like Billy ish wouldn't have been an artist that in 200 2006 if somebody was like Billy a they'd be like what they'd be like we want this like typical thing doing the dance moves and all the no people don't want that they want a girl who's like dressing cool as saying exactly what's on her mind and and just being herself and

**[1:11:57]:** like that's I feel like the artist today I can't wait to see the Next Generation because they're growing up on these amazing artists so I can't wait to see like what that brings 5 10 years from now you

**[1:12:12]:** know what I mean all the artists who are growing up on these artists right now' be cool and you're excited to work with all of them maybe is there anything else you want to ask me before we rap up when when you said that earlier about animals by the way taking 8 years I saw timblin said Pony yeah he held on to that song for eight years no yeah that's crazy yall have that in common that's insane so earlier when you were talking about like making a song with somebody yeah you go through the process of like connecting with so okay here's what it sounds like actually is happening though you have a conversation with the actual artist they are telling their story you guys are like forming an actual genuine connection you guys have an an actual genuine conversation and it sounds like whatever you're talking about often times becomes the song yeah of

**[1:13:10]:** course always do they okay so I was in a session with somebody and I tried this process wait you what did you do I we we we did this whole thing because like like traner told me about this too with other things like that and they wanted to stop writing because they felt it became too real yes stuff like that happens stuff like that happens all the time where like something becomes and then those usually wind up being the best songs but it's hard sometimes you got to work your way back to those you know what I'm saying sometimes like a a song like that it's so good but an artist gets really scared of it because it's exposing such a real side to whatever they have you know going on and it's like music it's hard because when you're writing a song it's kind of like a therapy session and when you're writing a

**[1:14:21]:** song it it can be become so real because when you're doing when like if I'm doing a song with you you might say things to me that you wouldn't say to me in real life because you have like the mask of the song to disguise it through so you might like say things about me that you might not even say with like your closest friends because it just kind of falls out cuz you're in a creative space that feels safe so sometimes something like that falls out and you like sit there and you're like oops I don't want the whole world to hear this and it's hard because a lot of these artists you know they're going to be singing this song for 30 years and they might not feel some people's biggest songs they don't feel that way 10 years later than what they did when they when they wrote it and it's like

**[1:15:11]:** it's so complicated because it's like a creative art form and everyone's like well just let us hear the songs but but sometimes it gets too real and like songs certain songs never come out like I have songs that I've done with people that are incredible that will never come out like I have like unreleased songs with everyone that that are insane that I'm just that just have to sit on my hard drive because you have to respect the artist for sure do you ever go back and listen to them yes I have so many that I like love that like I hope but you know with my theory 8 10 years they might come out

**[1:15:49]:** you never know or sometimes you give that art that song to another person another artist artist who is okay with saying words like that that happens a lot too that makes sense you know like some artists like Charlie or Julia they'll give away a song because they're like actually this it doesn't feel right for me I want to give it to somebody else and then it gets to see the the light of day in a different way wow so okay going back to what we said at the beginning with this goal of like helping the next Musical creatives a lot of people who are watching right now probably probably are you know making music want to be song writers want to be producers want to be artists there I think it's really cool because I I mean this has never really been done before like to a certain extent but not to this level so

**[1:16:42]:** first of all thank you so much for letting us go behind the wall and showing the demos of the songs what is your advice to anyone out there who wants to one start making music or wants to start making music their full-time thing start today okay to start yesterday okay start just start because you never know what you're going to be you know it's like I started out I thought I was going to be the biggest rapper in the world I wasn't the biggest rapper in the world but you know what I landed in a pretty cool job yeah and it's like don't be so precious like there's you can reinvent yourself a million times every artist has a past you go on you see like post Malone's first song you see this person's first song and it's like I like the evolution showing where someone evolves and I think right now the point of

**[1:17:37]:** entry is easier than it's ever been you could be nobody today and tomorrow have the biggest song in the world put up your music make videos Express Yourself don't be afraid to be yourself it if your music sounds like everyone else it's probably not that good yet you should do something that makes it sound like you just be original be yourself everyone else sorry for cursing for all the moms out there that are watching this right now I'm sorry Mom and my own mother I'm sorry sorry mom um when I started the series it was to shine a light on the people and stories behind music but it was also to inspire every Underdog to go for I used to work told you this last time I used to work at a call center before that like graduated without a job wanted to do music like um wanted to create videos wanted to do interviews

**[1:18:28]:** wanted to do all these things I made a vision board put you tedar Williams John Williams uh Han Zimmer so many Chris Martin so many people I wanted to talk to collaborate with meet and I put it on the I put it on the wall I start making videos like crazy every single day with my shitty little iPhone and recording my 2015 MacBook Pro and then after 6 years and actually yesterday I started to tear up like tear of Joy like about this specifically cuz like I couldn't believe that something like this was able to happen something that like this to me like has always been a dream so the fact that I'm able to do this like for a living is incredible it's crazy and you like I think I think over time a lot of people have you're you're going to get like a million NOS but all you need is like that

**[1:19:21]:** one person to believe in you and luckily I had like five of my first interviews uh people who like are some of my musical Heroes like Julia like traner like tedar like you a so I just wanted to say thank you again for doing this thank you thanks for letting us go behind the wall once more we did it we went behind the wall to see the incredible demos of the songs what's this you always give me a little thing because like thank like you're just you're just the king you're just a legend and I appreciate you you every single time oh my God it's so long you don't have to read it right now okay I'll read it I'll read it later I don't want anyone to know our little secrets that we hold okay guys it's behind the wall we did it we did it we did it again this is amazing thank

**[1:20:13]:** you guys I meant that guys just start today doesn't matter who cares and this is probably going to drop around the time of your new project oh yeah uh my new album it might be out yet I don't know we're recording this is the future we're going to be in the future we're recording we I have an album it's coming out or it's out and I hope you like it and I love you check out Benny's new album hopefully it's out now bye bye how was that that was amazing