Transcript
Use with ChatGPT / Claude Auto-scroll A
The panel discusses why broadcasters struggle to buy local content and argues that fixing audience measurement and advertising confidence must come first. They also warn against superficial compliance and low-effort programming.
to pay for local content.My I mean maybe um I'm I'm cursed cuz I come from a traditional television background that my biggest expense is actually production and acquisition.But a lot of other te television stations don't bother.They just they have talk shows.People phone in and then people talk talking head shows.So that that is the nature of the business today.So when you ask the question, how do we get um television stations to buy more content?You I don't think you can mandate that until you fix the problem.And fixing the problem comes from um advertising comes from having um fixing the the what does my DJ what do you call it the audience measurement system that gives confidence to an industry um so that people can soyou you have to fix that problem first before you can say let's mandate a TV channel to to buy program because even if you did that um I we did something when I was um in multi- choice and
we back in 1995 and we had the NBC has started the local programming uh we were supposed to carry 20% on cable and we did a fisheye channel.official channels simply meant that I'll take a camera to OshoD, point the camera and record whatever was going on in OshoD and I'll go back to the studio and I'll just title it and I'll call you local content,
you know, and and and I said to the NBC, Shi, you want us to show local content?Here you go.I fulfill local content, you know, and it was just a fisheye channel.And so I I think the question is fix the regulator the core should be fixing the advertising market and then you can the money will come in into buying programming.
The conversation turns to whether social media creators and YouTube can replace traditional TV and film. Speakers stress that different formats require different skills, business models, and monetization strategies.
Thank you.Um I think what I just wanted to understand is a chicken and egg situation because if you're talking about digital switchover how will channels survive without content?What is making what will incentize people to leave Instagram to leave Tik Tok and say they want to switch on television?It has to be compelling content.So how do we go around that?OB, you want to speak to that and then can we take questions?
Yeah.I mean I I think
two questions only.
Okay.I mean I mean just to say speak to what is saying I think at the end of the day say is it compelling content?Yes.I think one of the things that also I think people have to understand is that a content creator on IG or Tik Tok is not TV.It's not film.And I I see that a lot, you know, like you just watches some film and some random content creator shows up in the film and they put him in the film because of his audience, right?But that's not necessarily going to make the film any better, especially if he can't act.
Do you understand what I'm saying?Yeah.Because it's got nothing to dod.
Yeah.It's got nothing to It's got nothing It's got nothing to do with the film.You're just looking for any which way to market the thing.
Now I I think you I think personally I think it's a disaster to try to do that.I think if you want to if you're and also you know I hear we see the chat we hear the Mollywood guys talking all the time about oh YouTube.I think YouTube is a great distribution platform, but if you're looking for monetization, I'm not too sure because YouTube, you got to do billions of views to see money.And I think if you're an aggregator, then yes.So, the digital aggregators, the multi- channelannel guys are for EVO, the guys who have 800 channels, 12, 20 billion views, they're going to monetize and then they take care of the distributors down the pipe.But I think in terms of Nigeria, I don't know.
Panelists emphasize the need for cohesion, education, and a clearer commissioning system involving advertisers and media buyers. They also advise producers to design content within realistic budgets and use multiple platforms.
It's funny.It's weird because every time we have these conversations, it's actually the same actual thing and he said it earlier in his keynote and he said it again now and I just want to reinforce it is the lack ofcohesion, right?It's also there's a lack of education because the advertisers in Nigeria, we I worked extensively with them on the um audience measurement, right?and the advertisers in Nigeria, it's clear they've got the money to drive broadcast, right?The audience measurement is one of the ways in which they can see what is hot that they come back, right?One of the things that we talked about which we actually got consensus on which I mean Charles is aware is something we call the Nigerian content production board which is kind of like an ombbudsman to yes because yougot to create a way what's the funnel cuz you want broadcasters to buy right but what's the funnel for them to buy through and how do and it's the media buyers who drive that because they have the money
and then content producers need to understand the commissioning cycle for television which typically in other markets is twice a So we have to actually establish our market at that level with the media buyers who have the money andthen they will now chase with the algorithms and the data the hottest content and then the content producers need to understand that it is you know a skit doing great you know and it's like anywhere else in theworld just because you know you're doing a great comedy sketch and it's doing really great on Instagram or Tik Tok it's not a TV series or a film it's It's a different form of content, which is fine andit lives in those spaces.But if you're trying to do film and TV, which is a completely different thing and has a different kind of ecosystem, then I think you have to understand that that's also different.
There's nothing that guarantees that because you make great movies, you have a clue how to make a sketch.
And there's nothing that says, and I can tell you for free, a person making a sketch cannot make a film.It's just not the same business, right?So I think when we say content creators we got to be careful because it makes it seem as if it's that democratic I don't think it is even with AI you have to write content that goes beyond 2minutes to goes into 30 minutes or 16 you know it's format so you have to understand that process so I think a lot of market education still needs to happen for the actual producers the advertisers in the markethave the money right definitely so the next time we have this conversation you have to have the media buyers on the stage
advertisers to be
because that's the money.
Thank you for the
I want to only my side by my size.Um
one minute.
Yes.Producer have to think about the cost of designing their production when they are going to the to the broadcaster because if you are all all thinking about $1 million Siri you will never have uh broadcast to buy it.consider your market and try to cost to design your content and go to the broadcaster because he's he he talk about the advertising and the audience and what I want to to tell to the advertiser uh you canleave only you can broadcast only TV you have to have a platform because if the first window can be your platform you can measure ual the audience and have money immediately and after broadcast it to your classic uhscreen.It's what I want to say.
The moderator wraps up the discussion, thanks the panelists, and invites attendees to continue conversations informally. The session ends with announcements and photographs.
Thank you so much.Thank you.I think we've had very very interesting conversation.Unfortunately, I need to make a hard stop now because of our time.There's another session happening here.So, I know you have questions.Unfortunately, we are not allowed to take it.Please, we are all here.you can just walk up to any of the speakers with your questions and we are happy to answer them.So on this note, I want to say thank you.Thank you everyone.
Thank you for being part of this launch and don't forget you have to spread the word.The QR codes are still here.You can scan them and make sure that you're already starting to onboard your content on reach Africa.Thank you very much and enjoy.
Thank you.Thank you panelist.Thank you everyone.Remember the aon trip if you're interested seeker.You meet Miss Anna Balo after now.Thank you so much.Let's take the photographs.
A new session begins with announcements about a book signing for Professor Wole Soyinka. The audience is asked to remain for the celebration of the book's 20th anniversary.
Good evening everyone.The next session is a book signing by Professor Weso Inca.We are celebrating the 20th anniversary of his book you must set forth at dawn.So please if you interested kindly stay behind.Thank you.
Do you know?
Yes, I do.
later.
Oh, wow.
When was this?
It's it's 20, but it's
different.This one's better.
Yes.
This one is the cinema.
Yeah, this is
this is
the bigger one I think is the one
the geography of the so transformed.
Yes, absolutely.
Hope I'm not disturbed the acoustic arrangement.I hope I haven't disturbed the acoustic arrangement.Okay.
I don't know.
prophets.
Two
Okay.
The host introduces the event and frames the memoir as a landmark literary work tied to Soyinka's legacy. The publisher then speaks about his long relationship with Soyinka and the significance of the anniversary.
Good evening, distinguished ladies and gentlemen.We sincerely apologize for the delay.Um, why do I sign weird?Okay, good evening once again.Um, I'm happy, excited, and gated to welcome you to this once in a lifetime session featuring Professor Wi Shoinka.Um, 20 years ago, a literary masterpiece was born titled You Must Set Forth at Dawn.It is a remarkable memoir of Africa's first Nobel laurate in literature, Professor Wes Shoinka.It was published in 2006 and it is a testimony to courage, conviction, intellectual freedom and the enduring struggle for justice and human dignity.For the past two decades, its pages has continued to inspire generations, reminding us that the journey towards truth, freedom, and a better society demands both courage and sacrifice.Today, we celebrate not merely 20 years of a book, but the enduring legacy of a literary giant whose voice continues to challenge power, awaken consciousness, and illuminate the African experience.
to guide us through this special celebration.It is my great pleasure to introduce a distinguished figure in Nigerian literary publishing in Nigerian publishing a passionate champion of African literature and professor Shinka's publisher Mr.Bank of bookcraft.Let's give him a round of applause.Thank you.
Thank you.Thank you.Thank you Edify.Good evening ladies and gentlemen.Welcome.My name is Bangoli Olay.I have spent the better part of 40 years in book publishing.I also have the rather unusual privilege of having been professor Shinka's student and for the past 25 years his African publisher.So, as you might imagine, this evening holds a special significance for me.In 1986, Professor Shinka won made history when he became the first African to receive the Nobel Prize for literature.20 years later, he gave us You must set Forth Dawn, a remarkable memoir that takes us through the turbulent intersections of his personal life, his literary journey, and Nigeria's often troubled political history.This year we celebrate two significant milestones.40 years since the Nobel Prize and 20 years since the publication of this memoir.But this evening is about more than anniversaries.It is an opportunity to engage with a writer, thinker and a public intellectual who has consistently refused to separate the life of the imagination from the demands of conscience.
A man for whom literature has never been merely an exercise in words but an act of engagement with the world.And knowing Professor Shinka as I do, I suspect we can look forward tonight to some provocative reflections, a few unexpected revelations, and I hope a generous measure of his famously irreverent humor.Ladies and gentlemen, it is my immense pleasure to welcome my former teacher, my author, our distinguished guest, Professor Wishinka.
Soyinka responds with humor and reflection, apologizing for the surprise of the event and commenting on the venue. He uses the moment to discuss public protocol, the building's history, and the symbolism of honors.
Thank you, uh, Professor Shinka.Here we are in 2026, marking two rather remarkable anniversaries.I know you're not one for anniversaries,
but I'll I'll continue anyway.40 years since the Nobel Prize in Literature and 20 years since publication of You Must Set Forth at Dawn.Now, 20 years after its publication, is it still an accurate portrait of the man who wrote it?Or how have the intervening years altered your understanding of some of the events and people you described in the memoir?
Um
the first uh statement I have to make which I have entered into my public template is to apologize for seemingly bringing you here under my own name.
First thing I didn't even know until how many hours ago that this conversation will be with my publisher.It's possible that I could have been given that information in the midst of so many other things.Um, that's possible.So, I shouldn't blame the organizers or whatever.But more important was the fact that I wasn't really uh fully I hadn't grasped the significance of bringing people from all over the bringing if not me do not people from all over the country and the diaspora ifI had I think I would have managed to find some uh diplomatic uh explanation for my sudden disappearance.So I'm going to turn this opening remark these opening remarks to my an advantage.those of you I I don't know how it is in the rest of the world but this country has a tradition in public events in which they begin with honoring as is prop you know it's prop proper the
visitors have taken off etc and I rec I want to recognize this I want to recognize this person I want to recognize this royal majesty and then all protocols observed
So anytime I find myself in this building, I'm going to begin by just saying all protocols of WS observed and the main protocol is apology.You don't know what strange feeling is like to have to have to attend to be part of cause of responsible for uh even my own presence under a building like this under my own name and uh I'm tryingto get used to it because the more often I come here the more I seem to like the ambiance as you know this place was uh virtually a home for pigeons once upon a time until a consortium decidedthat they would not follow statements friends I have made in the past saying listen you people you want a national theater build one to build one you have to blow this one up because there's nothing African about thisarchitectural style its message its culture and so on and since the military built it and I was obliged to performing it to creating it to react with other people in it was like, "Okay, we'll just manage it."
Now, can you imagine what it's like having an event now having to attend an event under something that said just put a small atom bomb and go and blow it up and then we can start all over again.Well, let me congratulate felicitate those who worked on transforming this building into something usable and laudable.And if anybody says to me, isn't that the place you say they should blow up?I would deny it.But I never said any such thing.The next is to apologize for those on behalf of those who said what relation he'll never accept that honor.Uh among them are those who said well in any case even if you're going to offer it to him you should take care of all others to whom a similar kind of honor is due.And I'm sorry to say that this is only one structure of this kind.
It's different from bus stops.And I understand that there's a lot of complaint that um I should have been given the bus stop and the owner of the bus stop should have been given this one.You must be joking.And so in addition to everything, I wish to apologize that they were disappointed and nothing to do with it.I received a message, thought it over, and in the end I said to myself, wait a minute, wait a minute.A colleague had this, a politician had this, a dictator, even a brutal one had this.Um, this one has this.my friends and so on.I've myself even contributed to naming structures other after others.And when I thought it was okay, maybe modesty apart a miracle.
The interviewer asks how the memoir connects Soyinka's life to Nigeria's history, and he explains why looking back is difficult but necessary. He describes childhood influences, his uncle, detention, and the process of recovering a child's voice.
I think that's I think that's a nice Yeah.Before you Yeah.carry on.That's a nice segue to my next question.We're trying to focus as much as possible on this remarkable memoir.Uh and uh one of the fascinating things for me about the memoir um is that it is almost impossible to separate the Wesinka story.I think you've you've you've sort of addressed that tangentially.the Wesleshinka story from the story of modern Nigeria.Um, was that inevitable?Um, could you have written a more private personal memoir without the country's turbulent history intruding?
Uh, I doubt it because even this was a very reluctant uh piece of work.The worst thing anyone can do is look into the past in every in in a serious manner.It's possible one can do it if one have good sense of self mockery.But it's dangerous to do it to take a look at the past in the dimension it derives because it'll be like the story of um the milliped which stopped to count its feet and never walked again.Because you cannot believe that a creature like this can manage 1,000 ft.And when you say, "Wait a minute, look at this worm prancing all over the place and yet getting from A to B and then reversing and then going left, west, right, uh, north, south, it'll be impossible.You just cannot walk again.And so I advise you don't even look into the past with every intention of actually extracting productively from that past because you will begin to doubt that you went through all those passages and you came out intact.
However, I am a writer.That's my profession.That's my temperament.Just right.And one of the things sometimes the material chooses you.You don't always choose the material.There was something very special for me compared to other people I've spoken to and whose biographies I've read and so on.There's always a sort of wistful extract result that something was being lost and that as a writer maybe I can replace it to some extent.It wasn't my me memos that occupied me really but having looked into the environment in which from which that the material of uh of that uh that subject came.I became wistful that it it was being lost.Um, we spoke earlier of this structure and I know what this area was like as a child and as a child there were incredible personalities.The strong one of the strongest of which was my uncle, my great uncle uh the Reverend I Ranouti.
Imm was fascinated and that meant everything around him, the educational process, the political uh um fights, the the structure of feudalism itself, which however seemed to me one of the most fascinating and in many ways progressive environments becauseit was a process of transition of comparison with other cultures through what I learned at school, history, but mostly through the interaction of people, the values, the general ambiance.And um I sat with my uncle one day when I was very young and I said to him this by this time I think I'd go entered secondary school.I become fascinated with stories, histories and so on.And I said to him one day, I'm going to write about you when I grow up.Very young.I'd read um episodes like the history of the Euroba bishop personalities like Aay Crower uh the the the embarrassing if you like racially embarrassing narrative of slavery itself capture.
I was fascinated by I read read and I said I'm going to write about you one of these days and then what did he do he died on me I said okay and I forgot the project for sometime and then later I said why did I want to write about him because he fascinated me as a phenomenon a phenomenon a power of nature and so I said there must be ways in which I can recapturethe totality of what he represented.You know, transitional period, education, peculiarism.He was eccentric and at the same time was very methodical and absurdly methodor methodical.For instance, I never knew it was possible to distinguish between bad grass and good grass.And if you failed by this time I was the first year of the grammar school of Beluta I said bad grass good grass and if you missed one tuft of quote unquote bad grass he beat you he took
out his weight six strokes of the cane all because of a bad grass good grass.So I said, "Okay, let me try and recapture that."And I went into what you might call mental recess, regress a number of years before I began to set down, what I what I recall so vividly cuz I wanted to get the child's voice.I really wanted to recapture that voice.So I had to wait many more years before one day I had my call the partial total recall.And so this what was supposed to be more or less a monograph of that transitional period of my environment, society, the culture of the the theatrical culture, the music, the sound, the smells.I said I must wait until I really recapture it.And when I was in detention, political detention and u had stolen from the prison wers and so on what I needed to replace pen and ink and also manufactured some myself and solitary confinement and using bones to make
a pen from my u from a meal which wasn't bad by the way at the time anyway.Uh I wrote the first chapter in what I consider was really close to how a child viewed the world that was a and um from a later on after various encounters, adventures and so on many of which Ifound incredible Um then I moved on to you must dawn this time with a child's voice.I hoped because that's really what I wanted to capture the the child's looking at the world around during that politically fascinating during the turmoil uh continued in other words with a new voice I hoped more mature uh andmore contemporary and eventually he eventually got something which I thought was uh passively credible and informative but also also with a sense of wonder.How did I get into this mess?How did I even think of venturing out in this direction?
So now the marvel was me to me.What got you into this?What were you looking at?So you had nothing better to do.No uh diversions in different directions and so on.and of course the sense of history of which I was a part in many directions and at the same time how I responded to challenges which I felt should not have been there in the first place if humanitywas sane.So it was now a popery of adventures internal analysis and at same time hopefully um a sense of adventure let's put it that way in the world into which I've been born.So what you saw there, what you have whenever you encounter it really should never have happened in the first place.And so maybe it was a way of rational or making sense of that tumultuous period into which many of us here not too many have just very young were born eventually.
Uh so I hope you enjoy the reading of it and uh if I manage to make a mistake of coming back in this direction again after uh this round um I will I think I will have a more
Soyinka explains how the memoir's title evolved from an earlier phrase and why he came to appreciate it. He reflects on the idea of starting again, unfinished human development, and the poem behind the title.
futuristic sense of biographies.
You will set forth a dawn again.
I will resume but I would have created my own dawn at that time you know.
Yeah.which is which is why I'm asking I mean I want to ask the title you must set for the don is both philosophical and also like an instruction
oh the title itself
yes
that's the word you see sometimes um editors can be very creative themselves uh that wasn't supposed to be the title to begin with uh that sense of marvel gave me the first title which was beyond the word beyondthe word.That was the original title,
right?
And uh the one of the editors uh looked at it and said, "Why don't you call it you must set forth at dawn after a line in one of your own poems poems?"Yes,
that's how that happened.At the beginning, I was not too happy with it, but then uh I found that it made sense.It was even sounded to me more poetic than just beyond the word.Even beyond the word sort of engages your curios what is there beyond the word?What is there beyond the fact that you're a writer?So that was also valid.But I like the sound of you must set forth at dawn.
So it's sort of grown on you then.It has grown on you.
It dawned on me.So, so at 92 at 92 what what does what does that mean?setting forth at dawn.I mean looking back now
starting all over again uh again because not just because there are so many dawn but because as a curious child and that's why I referred to a to begin with that was the title of the original biography umthat um the the you must say it's like I was saying when I met uh other writers just this morning uh for the um for the master class quote unquote.I was telling them that I discovered so all the way I must researching I discovered the humanity itself is a work in progress that we're not yet there truthfully.I think in my subconscious I I I just had that sense of always resuming where you left off
or somewhere else but that nothing nothing was ever completed secondary school for me never completed uh infant school before not completed go to university not completed I truncated it even along the way myself and that's it was bothtruthful uh also challenging at the same time has this sense of will it never end the task whatever it is resuming over and over again like Cisphus rolling that boulder the hill another poem and watching it roll downand starting all over again but not in a negative way not in a pessimistic way uh that discovering that as I said humans is permanently in formation.So it totalistic
but ultimately because it was my own line anyway.So I didn't have to go and plagiarize anybody else's title.I knew it was mine.I wrote a poem.So I that was it.It was mine to use.
The discussion shifts to Soyinka's relationship with Nigeria and what loyalty means to him. He distinguishes loyalty to humanity from nationalism and rejects blind patriotism in favor of human dignity.
Right.Okay.uh leads me to this next question which is um your very complicated relationship with Nigeria um sometimes at home, sometimes in exile uh but frequently at odds with those in power.Now what is it about this country that continues to command your loyalty in a sense?
Loyalty test
despite this sorry
do you say loyalty test?
No, that commands a loyalty.I mean you're loyal to the country.You've been loyal to the country in a sense.I mean,
despite everything or am I am I misreading your relationship with Nigeria?
I am loyal to the humanity within Nigeria.
Oh, okay.You see the No, I'm glad that this came up because words expressions like patriotism for instance have always as far back as you remember qualified their accepting their use.Yes, there is something called a nation.There is the United States for instance, if there is still one, I think there's still one, they managed to just pull back from the brink uh of self-destruct.But ultimately along the way, I discovered that frankly I I don't have any sense of loyalty to something we call nation.I'm not a nationalist.I'm not a patriot.uh I'm breaking down for instance my uh position we're moving we'll be back my position for instance when we had this test this ultimate test if you like of nationalism patriotism when you reach a stage as a communityone that has existed presumed the existence of a community when you allow that community to reach a stage where it tears itself apart.
What does it mean?What what are you ultimately what what you tearing apart?Is it an abstraction called nation or is it the humanity within that abstraction that uh that you regret regret that loss of uh whose whose sense of a loss of community you you just abandon and tear one anotherapart.And I'm not talking about Nigeria alone, of course.I'm talking about Somalia.I'm talking uh about even the Basque in u in Spanish history.I'm talking about Ukraine today and the Soviet Union.I'm talking just about watching something about which you presumed to have taken your definition uh in terms of a citizen.when you watch it just being discarded like that um destroying what the hands have built up in the name of something called patriotism.I find it very difficult really.I found it difficult to to shout hurahh when the bombs began to fly and you were going to other quote unquote nations to borrow their weapons for self-destruction and then you come back and you feel very proud that
you've turned the humanity within it to pieces.Now you have to go back resume again at dawn and then again propel yourselves towards it.I ask myself a question I could not feel the kind of patriotism which the rest of my fellow citizens seem to feel at the time.To keep the nation one is a task that must be done.cannot recite or even feel slogans like that within the humanity the confronted faced with the humanity within that enclave that we call nation yes I feel absolutely loyal and uh attached because I am part of that I canfeel that I can recognize that I can recognize other human beings but I've never succeeded even in geography I was surprised that past geog photography in school set.Yeah, I they should have failed me on the spot because I I I don't think I passed any question there.
Uh which involve both history and geography.Yes, I can say if you want to destroy that forest that you don't respect ecology, the nature's work and that yeah, I can you can fight for that.The humanity of course whose property it really is whose total to totality uh a fraction of whose totality you take your own selfidentity.Yes, that one I can understand.But I've never really come to terms with the possibility the even the likelihood how much more the execution of that instinct that you're you're feeling how to be part of an obstruction when I work when I write Iam writing for human beings not for anything culination.No.
Asked what still gives him satisfaction, Soyinka says he remains skeptical of fixed ideologies and labels. He then offers younger people practical advice: take life lightly, pass exams, and allow imagination to shape their future.
Okay.I imagine that there'll be a few questions from the audience before we wrap up.Uh but I have one or two more questions.Um at 92 after all the books, the battles, the struggle and the honors of course, what gives you the greatest satisfaction?And is there anything you once believed in with absolute conviction that age and experience have caused you to consider?Umthat's a very difficult question.Very difficult question.Those who are prime nationalists are very lucky because they can always site you know my country right or wrong u patriotism even uh propria and all that kind of expression.In that sense would there be um a goal a target of which I'm conscious and towards which I like to propel myself my work h it's a very difficult I I really don't know it's like when I'm askedare you positive are you optimistic or pessimistic I always end up saying I'm pragmatic uh I use what is there but in terms of uh some going towards I've been through phases like ideology for instance abstractions ideology yes
um communism socialism uh anarchism even is that would I like my literature my writing creativity to propel quote unquote nation towards that ultimate abstraction.No, I've always questioned everything.That's I think that's been part of my problem, you know, that uh I just question it no matter how seemingly glorified, sanctified it is.I just have always questioned it.So I I cannot if before this conversation ends I think of something, I'll let you know.Let's move on.All right.Okay.Um All right.Well, before we get take questions from the audience, let me end where we began with you must set forth a dawn.20 years after the book was published and 40 years after Stockholm, if you were to offer a piece of advice to the young Walesa embarking on on this remarkable journey of your life, what would it be?And knowing that young man, as I assume you do, would he have paid the slightest attention to?
Uh
going further um going as far as actually offering an advice I would consider itvery dangerous because I don't think in retrospect I think life can be more quiet than I seem to have made it for myself.Sometimes I I when I stay in Lagos, I look through the window.Uh I'm on the fourth floor.I look through the window just outside there.There's a school and from time to time I would uh hear some noises and occasionally I would look through the window.I'd see the all of them running around sports, football.They even play um what's the American u I think when they throw that ball very fast at each other.Uh the American cricket
baseballh
baseball
is that baseball?No,
it's baseball when they knock each other out with
Okay.Yeah.Yeah.American headbutt.
Yeah.Football.Football.American football.American football.
Oh, doesn't it have its own proper name?Okay.Anyway, so I see all these children, you know, a plane fighting each other.I say, "Was I once like that?"I find it very difficult to believe.So, um, if I had to offer an advice to them, I just said, "Listen, don't take anything too seriously.Uh just make sure you pass your exams and you decide early enough what you would like to become as an adult because that in itself is a creative process.You will change your mind about um 20 times every year.uh and enjoy that enjoy the the fantasy of being this a lawyer.Can you imagine me?I can't add two and two together.And yet I wanted to be a pilot.I wanted till today I like to be an astronaut.Incidentally, if anybody knows any rocket going up and they they have a free ticket, believe me, I'm ready.
I go back into training.So decide early because just playing around with the notion of what you like to be is so entertaining and uh very very creative because then you fantasize what be like this and maybe that'll make you end up asa writer because you're fantasizing all the time.So no I don't I just can't say I just say enjoy whatever you're doing at at that particular moment.That's really advice.
In response to a question from a young Nigerian, Soyinka argues that freedom and liberation are central to politics at every level. He emphasizes autonomy, survival without humiliation, and the need to resist subjugation.
Thank you.Thank you.Thank you.
So if if anyone has um any questions, any I I believe the microphone is moving around.Um yeah,
just indicate please.Yes, there a gentleman.There's a gentleman here.
Good afternoon, Prof.Um, my name is Caleb and I my question is as a young Nigerian, um, we have lived we are living in a country that still has the chaos.I'm right here.
Who's he's over there?Yeah.
Uh, speaking as a young Nigerian, I and a lot of young people can can say that some of the stories that you spent your young years writing about some of the struggles that you that you experienced are stillstruggles that we face today.Um, as There's a lot of echo.
Okay.Okay.
No, no, go ahead.I want him to
Okay.Um, so my question right now is considering the political climate and what it looks like um for Nigeria, for the young people, especially with the forthcoming elections.What is what would a sage like you say to young Nigerians?
Yeah.Sorry.Considering the political climate.Did I hear right?Is that what you said?
Considering the present political climate
consider
considering the present political
I can go I can go over it again.
Yeah.So what's the question the what advice?
So the the the question rest on the fact that we are currently experiencing some of what he experienced when he was young.
Yeah.that formed the Petra for his um writings.So as a now you are older and we still face the problems that you faced.What would a sage like you say to us young Nigerians?
So what advice
especially within the what advice would you give to
political advice?Yes.
What advice of current police?
That's right.
National or international
or both?
You know where my mind is going, don't you?So answer the question.Political atmosphere um in Nigeria on the African continent, West African uh uh regions of region because that's a very large question.Uh the world is very political these days and the politics the direction of the politics um it's still is very wobbly.
One of my if you say something I was going to say one of my commitments I something I'm really very partisan about is freedom liberation and partisan and non-compromising about it whatever it takes for me to feel fullyliberated and that means can only mean to sense the sense of full liberation of others politically.I I confess an uncompromising commitment, sense of commitment.In fact, I sometimes use the expression that the that world history is propelled by this permanent uh aggressive even dynamism between freedom and power and whatever is required to ensure that one exists, thinks, eats, relates, uh creates inan atmosphere of human liberation.For me that is a target that is a driving uh commitment a guiding even uh factor of thinking of relating to other people.Yeah.And that is the basis for me of either national so regional politics, international politics.
That's why um yesterday I think I said that our concentration right now if we want to be engaged politically or to even contribute to directing in any direction to directing in any aspect the uh the situation the conditionpolitical condition of the world.We have to be very conscious and uh and prepared for any kind of possible transformation.I said the world has changed within the past 48 hours.That's what I said yesterday and that's what I mean because there has been a almost a uni uh a kind of linear acceptance and uh not commitment as but submission a submission to the linear direction uh nature ofpolitical state relationship national relationships and and so forth.And we should be prepared to encourage that change of linearism, a negative from a linearism in which it is possible, it happens as a reality to take our direction from one spot in the world.
In other words, somebody sneezes in the um in the Ukraine in the Ukraine in this direction of the Soviet Union, somebody sneezes over there.And here on this continent, several thousand kilometers away, the head of the Africa Union finds it wise because I'm using my experiment carefully because this not meant to be a criticism.finds it in the interest of his own people to leave whatever he's doing and dash over there to negotiate to make sure that the passage of wheat to make bread is maintained.That becomes a critical issue of survival for his own nation and for other parts of the African continent.that even for that basic commodity called food or sustenance where to leave and go over there talk to Zilinski talk to Putin and then come home saying I have saved the day it was a pragmatic move it wasvery uh it was essential for the survival was cynical at that time uh but at the same time it's humiliating ing.
So if we want to look first of all the fundamentals of the politics of the nation of the world of our own nation to look the first commitment should be to change direction almost single-mindedly towards that that conditionwhere we do not have to depend our survival on the internet for on others for the very basic fundamentals of existence of human existence whatever it takes now if we have to pay a very heavy price for thatI think it's worth it as a primary target this may even include new allegiances new alliances uh new seeming uh negative donor recipient relationship we have to be pragmatic and weigh our choices.Look at the tempo by which we must change direction in order to arrive at that ideal ideal.So that's the only advice I can give at the time.In addition, however, to recognize that whether we like it or not, human dignity is not an abstraction.
There is an innate.When I talk about power on the one side and
power on one side and freedom on the other, it's not it's not it's not a a harmonization.It's an essential to humanity as important as food that one eats and digest.I I I don't believe that freedom is a luxury.It is so essential in between one's self-cognition indistinct distinct from the animal ruminance and so on that for human being that is essential anything else one is able to compromise here and there but to lose one's dignity andthis has been the history of the world you can talk about uh dialectics you can talk about uh progress you can talk about this this and the other But the human being needs a sense of selfworth and thathas been the history of the world and that should continue I believe to be the essential the motoring uh capacity of human activities.So that's the only ad advice whether we're talking on a national level or we're talking look at when this man came on the scene.
He sits down here you how many are you 100?200 okay and I sit down and I say submit or I blow you up.Hm.I believe that general humanity will say, "Okay, go ahead.If that's the worst you can do, please, but I'll do my best to make sure you do not blow me up, but that I will accept subjugation in order to live."I think that is the hard core.That's a hard core of decisions which humanity has had to make ever since its very recognition as uh homo sapiens.So all ideologies for me depend on those two things.An autonomy which makes me not depend on you either as individual or as a nation and a way of living of creating of surviving which does not humiliate you.That's been the history of the world and I think it's the right perception and the right concept.
A question about AI leads Soyinka into a broader warning about technology, religion, and abuse of power. He argues that human intelligence must remain in control and that experimentation should be balanced by philosophical judgment.
Uh yeah.Oh
yeah.Good afternoon sir.Uh it's such an honor to be here.So I have one question.With the rise of AI, people can now easily write books and even poems and that is very concerning.So do you encourage the use of AI?
Sorry, could you repeat that
in writing?Can you repeat?
Would you encourage the use of AI?
Oh, where use of
AI?the use of AI in
ah
AI
AI is the next problem of the world there's no question um like all humanists all u all technology challenged uh people humans I'm always fascinated by technological development And um it first of all it emanates from human intelligence.There there's no autogenic machine that I know in the world.It's all the work of human beings.And so it's an absurdity.If the creation of the fundamentals of technology which now is approaching what we call air.Uh if one creates uh material an object that can somehow begin to dictate to humanity.For me this is suicide.This is encouraging suicide.I think most of us would prefer not to be compelled to commit suicide.This basically just an instinct and so we uh we have to manage technology.We have to know for instance we have to introduce the activity that we call philosophical inquiry into the extent to which we encourage the autonomy of instruments mere technology.
Also we know very well that anything can be abused by humanity.In other words, this audience can be split into two.One which says technology uh stops here and the other one says no, you proceed.And that very question that very um question internal question on behalf of humanity can then lead to violence between the two.It can become a religion.We know that uh many of you here I know won't agree with me but for me religion is one of these constructs of uh of the mind of the human mind that has gone all right.We no longer control.We haven't set a limit a rational limit of the possibilities of religion.That is why a religion can get up and say, "Oh, you you frowned when you mentioned the name of this uh prophet, this avatar.You frown.Therefore, you must die."And you know there are religions which not not only preach that but actually carry out that sense of dictatorship on others because we haven't accepted the fact that religion itself is a construct.
It's on the same level of human construct as technological inventions.If we don't place the human survival, dignity, availability of resources, we don't attempt, we don't make it a principle of egalitarianism that communities, individuals are entitled to the same uh necessities as anybody else.And so AI, we've seen it even before it was called AI being abused.When you talk about for instance stoleing identities and I've been writing about it recently, even the very language of um um fake news for instance, identity, false acquisition of other people's identities.Did you know for instance that I'm a I'm a patent medicine vendor.Did you know that?Oh yeah.I will send you my card and calling card that I have seen my double ganganger on television.The video is FaceTime and people will say have you seen this?Have you seen?And there is this image which can be composed by anybody who has a technology uh in the knowhow.
And there it is.Wesinka is advertising patent medicine.Lots of white black hair.Accent very very close.Even I can be fooled by the accent there.Lip sinking.Yeah.of a precision viability and advertising prevent but I think it was for diabetes
and a woman called me from my own abut manage she saw it tracked me down somehow she was so desperate she sent money to the u the winka number two and so I got this phone Oh, um, youroffice has, she was very nice.She said, "Your office, could you get your office to send me this medicine?I've sent all the money.Uh, and I received neither package nor medicine.Uh, please could you tell them this my address?"Painfully, I had to tell her, "Madam, me too.I'm looking for that polic.When I see him, just send him to me.I know how to deal with him."said, "Unfortunately, I'm just like you."And imagine that on very on several levels.We knew when I'm talking about humanity now that when the atom was split, we knew humanity was in trouble and conferences, congresses, meetings, these this don't let destroy humanity.
In other words, we woke up to the possibility that atomic energy can be used in a negative way to to commit suicide.Collective suicide movements were made.Why do we think this thing which sometimes seems abstract artificial intelligence does not is not entitled to the same consideration.It's like it's a separate totally dichotomized section of human creativity intelligence and we let it loose and we know very well that even till today human we have had human loss even with no human beings around just uhcreative um um human beings what we've created running a mock on their own and there are forces which try to downplay all over the world simply because of money.Because with artificial intelligence now beings it is very strange that thought consideration intelligent projection is being abandoned simply to let loose Frankensteines on the world.So artificial intelligence please uh when you talk about technological transfer before you start transferring oh please consider the reality consider the possibilities the consequences it's not a question of saying uh machine running a mock no it's a question
of human going on a path of self-destruct and failing to think it out to think out the ultimate the possibilities of of destruction.One of the reasons I confessed earlier that mathematics I hated mathematics in school.I wanted to kill my mathematics teachers.But one thing I recognized was this that the human brain if you don't use it in any direction it atrophies.And so I insisted on constantly using my brain to do simple calculations because I said I don't want any part of my brain to atrophy even if I cannot build uh an aeroplane.No, doesn't matter.But I believe that different sections of brain depend on one another.They interact with one another.little simplicism I understand and therefore I insist on using my brain for things which I even hate.Humanity for some reason or the other things that again linearity is going this way.
I've discovered it.How far can it go along that line?We don't use other parts of the brain the thinking philosophical humanistic exertion of our creative processes.we don't pay attention to those.So, it's a question of balance was what I'm saying.I'm not saying stop uh experimentation.No, no, no.But control it by the same mental powers that created that object in the first place.That's all I think.
The organizers thank Soyinka and the publisher for the event and explain how attendees can obtain the limited edition book. The session ends with the signing process and closing remarks.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.Um, Professor Wes Inca, I am, you know, indeed really glad that you were able to make it today.I mean, we can see a full hall here.This particular book, you must set forth at dawn.We were so honored to launch it 20 years ago at New Metro.And so having this now and being here 20 years later with the limited edition and the anniversary, you know, edition, um, it's a great honor that you chose us at CANX to bring this to.Thank you so much for your time.Thank you so much for being here.I know that we have
I know that we have learned so much.Um and uh thank you Mr.Banko Olivi.Um I think the partnership that we've had over the years has brought us more and more of Professor Wy Sharinka to our audiences here.So thank you so much.We sincerely appreciate you as well.
Thank you.So, I'd just like to say that the books here um have been already, you know, bought.However, Mr.um Allayabi has said that anybody that wants um a copy the limited edition um he he will make sure that it's available, you know, to them.
Uh do you have a specific website or something?Yeah, we we'll can get in touch with Bookcraft.Yes.
Okay.So, if you if you get in touch with Bookcraft, you can indeed get this.Um, so we will on the Canix website, we will put a link, you know, to getting the book.Um, so that you can just click and, you know, it'll give you all the information that you require.So, thank you so much to this audience.We sincerely appreciate you as well for being here and for staying through and um thank you.
Thank you.
Oh, not yet.
Hello.How are you?
Yeah, you remember but please let me just sign it.People are waiting for the signing and all other caps over there.Is that where I'm doing the sign?Okay.
Oh, mic mic mic mic.
Excuse
me.
Time by