# How great teams really work | Figma for Edu Early Career Week

**Channel:** Figma
**Source:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq0iTIKbWKU
**Transcript page:** https://www.withtranscript.ai/video/iq0iTIKbWKU

## Chapters

- 0:00 — Welcome and Series Introduction for Students
- 2:11 — Panelist Introductions and Backgrounds
- 6:55 — Tools and Roles Discussion
- 13:25 — Design Review and Collaboration Practices
- 17:09 — Distributed Workflows and Communication Strategies
- 27:25 — Prioritization and Decision-Making Frameworks
- 37:44 — Career Advice and Skill Development
- 47:12 — Lightning Round, Q&A, and Closing Remarks

## Transcript

**[0:00] Speaker A:** Welcome back for Day three of Figma for Education's Early Career Week. I'm Joanna and I lead Higher Education Marketing here at figma. It's been super inspiring to see some of y' all joining us throughout the week. Some of the names seem familiar. I was like, I've seen you also on LinkedIn and it's especially special because just two years ago I was attending the series myself. So it's extra special to be here in the seat putting it all together. As a quick reminder, this week we're hosting three one hour virtual zoom sessions and we're bringing together designers, product leaders to talk about breaking into the industry. Figma's mission has always been about making design accessible to all and this really includes supporting the next generation of designers with the tools, community and guidance that you need to feel confident as you move into your careers. These sessions really stem from feedback from our students telling us that jumping from school to the professional world can feel quite overwhelming and challenging.

**[0:51] Speaker A:** Our hope with this series is that it makes that transition just a little bit easier and and a lot more encouraging.

**[0:57] Speaker A:** Jumping to our next slide before we dive in, a quick reminder that Figma is free for students and educators. You can use this QR code on the screen or the link that Alex will drop in the chat to be able to verify your school email. So this will give you access to things like Figma sites, figma make and Figma Design.

**[1:17] Speaker A:** On Tuesday, we explored what AI really means for new designers. Yesterday we talked all about your favorite part of the application process for portfolios, and today we're wrapping up the series with how great teams really work. We have the amazing Spotify product team as well as figma's developer advocate to join us today in that conversation. Be sure to stick until the end. We'll be sharing how you can enter to win one of three config tickets we're giving away.

**[1:41] Speaker A:** Finally, some housekeeping. All sessions are recorded and will be shared afterwards, likely posted on YouTube as well as emailed to you all. When chatting, please select everyone and follow figma's code of conduct. Be kind. Even though we are all online behind the screen, we are real people.

**[1:56] Speaker A:** Please avoid self promotion in the chat. This includes LinkedIn links. Those messages will be removed if time allows. We'll open it up for live Q and A at the end, so feel free to submit questions. With that, please join me in welcoming Akbar, who will be leading today's conversation.

**[2:11] Speaker A:** And Akbar, the mic is yours.

**[2:14] Speaker B:** Hey everyone, how's it going? So I'm Akbar I'm a developer advocate here at figma. What that means is that I go around, I help people understand Figma's developer platform, help designers and developers work together better and do as much as I can to kind of evangelize the things that we can do to make your process easier, but also just love working with students. Now I went to school in New York City at the City College of New York as a graphic design and computer science dual major through a program called the CUNY ba.

**[2:47] Speaker B:** I now work at Figma, but before this I was working as a UX engineer at Google and before that doing some consulting with them as a technical solution consultant. And in the past I've done lots of odd jobs either as a designer or as a developer web and iOS. And I'm really excited about the great folks that we have here on this chat with Francesco, ISRA and Anjana from Spotify who are going to be able to tell you about their journeys and what it's like working with a cross functional team. And I am going to start handing it off to Francesco to go ahead and allow him to introduce himself. So Francesco, could you tell everyone a little bit about yourself?

**[3:29] Speaker B:** What did you study in college? Where do you work now? What role are you doing and then what do you like to do for fun?

**[3:37] Speaker C:** Yeah. Thank you. Akbar, can you listen? Can you hear me?

**[3:41] Speaker B:** Yeah.

**[3:42] Speaker C:** Great first, yeah, thank you for the time and for being here with us today. Excited to talk to you and share a little bit more about, yeah, Spotify and what we've been up to.

**[3:54] Speaker C:** But for myself, yeah, I would say been at Spotify for the last three years as a product designer, currently working on the global free tier and then I've also contributed personalized experiences and some SEO initiatives for college, I would say my background is in architecture and social design and I'm based in New York and I was born and raised in Venezuela. So that's a bit of. Yeah, some of the background. And I would say for fun, I've been reading much more in the last five years. So I recently hit my goal of reading more than 16 books, which at the beginning of my reading journey was a lot.

**[4:36] Speaker C:** So I'm pretty happy about that. And then just finding some hiking trails when I go and explore new places and also doing some. Recently I've been doing some Q&As with either authors or filmmakers here in New York. So taking advantage of living in a city that has a lot going on. So I love that.

**[4:56] Speaker B:** Amazing.

**[4:57] Speaker C:** Yeah, I'll pass it to Israel.

**[5:01] Speaker D:** All Right, thank you, Francesco. So, hi everyone. My name is isra. I'm a product director at Spotify and I've been here at the company for the past seven or so years. I'm based in London, but I am actually from Northern California originally. So shout out to anyone from California. My background is actually in product design, engineering, and that's really where I built my love of all things product development. It's Spotify. I've worked on features such as lyrics, which some of you may have used. One of my favorite features, even though I may be a little bit biased here and then, I currently work with Francesco and Anjana on the free experience. And then for fun, I love to do anything and everything creative, making things with my hands. I love painting, photography. I've been dabbling in ceramics and I was definitely influenced by Anjana.

**[5:53] Speaker D:** Um, but yeah, that's pretty much me. So I'll pass it over to Anjana.

**[6:01] Speaker E:** Hi, I'm Anjana. I'm a staff content designer at Spotify. I'm based in London. I am originally from Kerala, South India, and I've, I've worked across different countries. I've been at. Been at loads of different tech companies and been at Spotify for almost. I mean, coming to my eighth year, actually as of last week, which is quite a long time, I work, I work with Israel and Francesco on the free experience. I also work on some of our premium stuff and a lot of our personalized experiences, one of which came out yesterday. So I'm really happy to see all those comments in the chat. I.

**[6:36] Speaker E:** Outside of work, I like est said I, I dabble in ceramics.

**[6:40] Speaker D:** I'm.

**[6:40] Speaker E:** I pretty much spend all of my.

**[6:41] Speaker D:** Time in the ceramics studio.

**[6:42] Speaker E:** If I have, if I have any spare time, which I do quite a lot of. I also tend to go on long walks and I also love to travel. So that's, that's, that's kind of my, my life so far.

**[6:55] Speaker B:** Thank you so much, Angela. I'm loving the. All of the talk about the creative, the creative processes that you're all going through.

**[7:02] Speaker B:** I have to be honest, I am the worst when it comes to creativity, especially when it comes to, like, working with my hands. So I'm always jealous and envious of folks that are fantastic at it. Now, why don't we move on into learning a little bit more about how you all work in projects together? One of the first things, and I think something that might be something our students want to know, is what are the kinds of design or AI tools that you're Spending most of your time in. How do they fit in your overall workload?

**[7:32] Speaker B:** Why don't we start with you, Anjana?

**[7:36] Speaker E:** Yeah, Well, I use a lot of the Figma tools, but I. Because my specialty comes from words and messaging strategy and figuring all of that out from a product perspective, I tend to also use ChatGPT and Gemini a lot. And one of the things that it really helps me with is like I'm not staring at a blank page anymore and it, it sort of helps me get things off the ground because I always find it easier to edit things versus writing from scratch. So if you've got something, feel like your. Your creative juices start flowing a lot more when you are looking at something that's already there. So I feel like it's really helpful. I also use it a lot to critique my own work. So if I've written something, I'm just going to, I'm just going to chat GPT and be just like, tell me what's wrong with this.

**[8:23] Speaker E:** Be really harsh.

**[8:24] Speaker E:** And I.

**[8:27] Speaker D:** That's.

**[8:27] Speaker E:** Those are my. I would say like, that's what I've been using it at least for the last few weeks. That's all I've been doing.

**[8:32] Speaker E:** So most recently is that. But I also use like any other tools I can to just like mock up things really quickly and just. It's just helping to convey ideas across faster for me.

**[8:44] Speaker B:** That's awesome. I would like to take a second just because I'm sure a lot of the audience would also like to know. What does it mean to be a content designer?

**[8:54] Speaker E:** This is a fun question because I feel like we get sidelined into being copywriters, which is probably 10% of my job. But I work with product people and engineering teams and designers to figure out what we're at. Because every step of the user journey is a conversation you're having with your user and figuring out what that actually means, what we need to prioritize communicating what the ideal experience is, how it's meant to make the user feel. So.

**[9:21] Speaker E:** And also even like from translating like business goals into actual ideal user goals and what that means in the product. So I feel like, I feel like my, my role. I, I feel like there's no particular box that we can actually put confidence and it's a, It's a great title to have, but I feel like we are in there doing several things.

**[9:42] Speaker B:** Oh yeah, I definitely relate to that and I feel like today more than ever, it's. We're all putting on lots of different hats. We're all doing things outside of maybe what a particular box tells us to do. And it's partially just kind of what helps us work well. So as for me, some of the design and AI tools I spend most of my time in include things like, things like figma, of course, where I'm working with our teammates in figjam to diagram, to brainstorm, working with teams to kind of build out assets using FIGMA design. One thing that I do a lot as a developer is using agenda coding tools like VS Code and Copilot. And so I will be doing stuff.

**[10:21] Speaker B:** One of the demos that I give often is taking a design from Figma and building it in code using the Figma MCP server. As for some of the other AI tools that I use, I'm a really big fan of Plaudit, just kind of really love the kind of, kind of responses that, that we're going into. I'm always going back and forth between ChatGPT and Claude in terms of kind of like talking through it, asking it questions, especially when I'm trying to get an additional perspective or I'm trying to get another review similar to you Engineer. So that's kind of how it fits in my overall day because I'm very cross functional. I'm working with teams in design teams, in marketing teams all over the world. And so being having these distributed tools makes it really easy for us to stay on the same page. Francesco, would you like to add some to that?

**[11:13] Speaker C:** Sure. And I think what you're saying rings true as well in that like, especially for the cross collaboration, I feel like you find yourself in both the like static designs initially and maybe a prototype within figma, but a lot of time on figjam too when you're inviting folks to participate on early workshops or ideation, especially as we're all distributed. So that's the bread and butter. And I would say recently for AI, it's a combination of what you're saying too. I find myself between dabbling between Cursor or Figma make, as both of them are either evolving or changing what you can do and what designs you can bring into it.

**[11:54] Speaker C:** And I think too for Cloud and ChatGPT, like just doing like a little bit of nuance between each other or comparison and sometimes even starting with one, going to another one and then continuing the work elsewhere. I would say the throughline is that the work is never in one place, it's really all over. But trying to find, at least as a designer, some organization within the chaos can go a long way. And Other people work differently too. I feel like sometimes whereas work together with other folks and when you get time to work in person, you also realize like, oh, this person is using it for this edge case. Can I explore that? So I think it's always being curious about how other people are using it and what can resonate with you. Not meaning you need to do that, but rather how do you compare contrast.

**[12:39] Speaker C:** So I think that's a little bit of what goes on a day to day.

**[12:44] Speaker B:** Fantastic.

**[12:46] Speaker B:** And I want to take a second isra if there's any AI tools that you're currently using. I know you're spending a little bit more time outside of the world of design, but any AI tools that you're constantly using.

**[12:57] Speaker D:** Yeah, I think for me it's really chatgpt Gemini. I'm on Figma as well actually because of course collaborating really close with these guys. But yeah, I find it really helpful sort of as Angie said sometimes to kind of have it critique something or to use as a sounding board. But yeah, or to even summarize large sets of data and organize things. So for me I use it in a slightly different way, but I find it really helpful.

**[13:25] Speaker B:** Fantastic. So for the next portion we're going to focus a little bit more on that design process to help some of our early career designers. What does a typical design review look like when you're working in your team?

**[13:36] Speaker B:** Francesco, let's start with you.

**[13:40] Speaker C:** Sure. I'd say to start there is no typical review and it evolves really between projects and like timelines. But I would say a couple of things ringing true throughout and you can think about it as like interdisciplinary. Attendance is always one like someone from each discipline, from insights to product content to engineering, even depending on which type of engineers or clients. So that's like who is in the room Then I would say it's really important again, irrespective of the stage to set the context and the problem space and sort of overview the user challenges and then connecting it to business and product goals. So it's like kind of like yeah, varying across. Sometimes we spend more time in context because it's new for all of us and sometimes it's more about like the user needs because those are the ones that are more upfront or more important.

**[14:38] Speaker C:** Then I would say last is keeping it very friendly for a distributed environment. And I often accommodate the work that I'm doing so that if you're sync you can contribute, but also to be able to share async in case you're not part of it or the time zone. I think for that the tools can really help in ways that it doesn't mean that you're not there, but you can really put your thoughts afterwards. So that's a bit of the structure that I can share and it's then depending on each project.

**[15:08] Speaker B:** Awesome. Anjana, is that mostly the same for content design or are there some specific differences?

**[15:16] Speaker E:** Well, for us in an ideal world we'll have a lot more time, but we generally don't. I think this is through across companies as well.

**[15:27] Speaker E:** But Francesco is super organized so I love working with him and his design reviews are really well organized and structured so that's really helpful. We at least with content design we do, we try and do like virtual design, virtual reviews of also like copy and content because other people have input. So at least there's a, there's a slack message going out being just like, hey, give me feedback on this. In addition to that. And sometimes, I mean there's a lot of input on design from there as well. So there's an extra layer I would say. And I think besides the immediate team review, even for Francesco, I mean we also have our other design like reviews with other designers sometimes. So that's also super helpful. Get feedback from multiple points and those reviews also help. Also we have like at least and I guess we have like lots of other stakeholders weighing in.

**[16:16] Speaker E:** Like we have our R and D stakeholders, non R and D stakeholders, everyone to weigh in. So it's a multiple step process at least to. For me.

**[16:24] Speaker B:** Yeah, it's. I think what I find really interesting about that is often when you're in school, when you're doing a design review, it's only with other designers. And so seeing all the different stakeholders that are involved in this process in the, in the, in the working world, it's something that I don't know if a lot of the students have been exposed to yet. And so one of the things that comes with that is creating alignment with different stakeholders. You know, being able to communicate in a way that everyone can understand and share priorities. What are you doing to kind of make that collaboration even smoother? Like especially like you said, we don't always have all the time in the world. Teams are moving fast, priorities are shifting all the time. Anjana, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

**[17:09] Speaker E:** Lots of documentation of decisions. I feel like conversations happen on slack, over meetings, in person, on the days that I'm in I and that like. So I feel like you need to document a lot of things or it's or it's not being communicated, but also just making sure everyone's aligned, whether it's through quick summaries of, of top priorities, next steps, whatever needs to be done in a very structured and organized manner in a digestible format that people can easily read and understand.

**[17:38] Speaker E:** I think that is what really helps. And keeping up, keeping documents and stuff up to date goes such a long way. And updating specs that have like updating specs with latest decisions. Figma's been really helpful in terms of like being able to document things for me at least and even using figjam sometimes just for myself to keep things updated. It's my, it's my go to tool to like keep my life organized.

**[18:08] Speaker B:** Yeah, yeah. And I think something about that is like that communication kind of goes a long way. Right? Like that documentation, whether or not it's a artifact for design is something that every part of the team is going to be using. Like I'm often in those documents just trying to figure out how are we going to follow up and build some of these products.

**[18:29] Speaker B:** I'd also like to hear a little bit of the product perspective. Israel, can you share more about like what that looks like when you're working with a bunch of different stakeholders? How are you making that collaboration smooth?

**[18:40] Speaker D:** Yeah, so it's a great question. I think the collaboration and communication is one of the most important things.

**[18:47] Speaker D:** And as Angie said, you know, over communicate, like if you think you're over communic, if you think you're not communicating enough, you are definitely not communicating enough. And if you think you're communicating like at a good level, then you're still probably under communicating. That was advice that one of my first managers gave me and it's really true. I think especially now that everything is distributed and there's so many of these, you know, slack channels, informal huddles, decisions that are getting made in, you know, smaller channels. It's even more important to communicate things clearly and effectively.

**[19:21] Speaker D:** And I think for me when I communicate just again, given that we have so many different stakeholders, whether we're trying to communicate with more of the R and D team like the developers, or if we're trying to communicate with marketing or you know, like brand and creative and different stakeholders, I think it's important to also think about, you know, who is the audience, what is the key message that you're trying to tell them. And I think also keeping it simple is really important. What the more you say, the, the more that can get lost in translation or the more that can, you know, dilute the point? So really, for me, trying to keep it crisp, concise, focusing on, you know, what am I trying to say? Does.

**[20:02] Speaker D:** Is it clear with this message what I'm. What is going on? What are we trying to do? And also why. I think the context is really important as well, especially when things are moving fast.

**[20:13] Speaker D:** Just to have a decision in isolation without any sort of context as to why can be just as confusing. And naturally there will be, like, this bit of telephone where things slightly get altered as the information passes on. So I think having that documented well and then having that clear communication and just thinking about the audience and who and how to best engage them where you're at.

**[20:36] Speaker B:** I kind of love that you use the telephone analogy here, partially because, like, it just highlights how important it is to communicate as much as possible. Right? Like, by doing that, you kind of prevent. You. You don't let things linger too long and don't let things morph before. Before it moves on to the next step. And this is kind of perfectly leads into the next section, which is like, we're working in distributed environments, right? Like, we're working on teams all over the world. Isra, I think you're in a very completely different time zone right now. Like, how are you balancing that when your teams are distributed across the United States, emea, jpac, what are some of the strategies that you're using and especially when you're context switching all the time?

**[21:24] Speaker D:** Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing that's been, again, incredibly helpful is just thinking about being more thoughtful about the communication itself and how we set up the working groups.

**[21:34] Speaker D:** So, for example, you know, like, Francesco is based in New York and a lot of the, you know, the product and engineering team is based in Europe. So sometimes it's a matter of, you know, how do we make sure that we've gotten gone through all the questions and have it ready to go for Francesco to, you know, weigh in on or have him make it basically make it easy for him to collaborate and effectively and easily in that context.

**[21:57] Speaker B:** So.

**[21:58] Speaker D:** And then, of course, with different types of stakeholders. So we have a lot of team.

**[22:03] Speaker D:** The team in like, APAC time zone. We have a lot of team in, like, California even. So it. It can really be difficult, but trying to make sure that, again, things are documented and within every project. Something that I really like to do, especially when you have multiple projects moving all at once, is to kind of have a clear roadmap view and these different milestones.

**[22:25] Speaker D:** So you almost map out, like, here's the End goal here's you know, phase one or M1, M2, M3. So that way it's very clear to people like this is where we're at, this is where we're going, this is what's coming up next. And I think for people to have sort of that picture in their mind of where we, where are we and where are we going, it actually helps keep things organized and it helps people understand the context. And then from my end it also helps me think of like, okay, wow, do we have so too many things going on at once? Do I need to, you know, take a step back and prioritize and you know, rethink the prioritization or the sequencing maybe do we delegate is if it's a different phase of the project, should we treat it in a different way?

**[23:06] Speaker D:** So I think basically mapping it out and mapping out kind of where you are in the journey really helps you get organized and get clear and also for everyone else to be able to follow along, oh 100%.

**[23:17] Speaker B:** And I think we're touching on a kind of pretty recurring theme at this point, right? Like communication is everything, documentation is everything, right. And documentation isn't just like putting together everything in like a notion doc or even like a Google Doc that includes visual artifacts, right? Like our design reviews, that includes our figjams that kind of document the decisions that we've made and how we're moving forward.

**[23:41] Speaker B:** And as somebody myself who works across it works with folks in jpac, in EMEA and across the states, one of the biggest things that we do is trying to find areas of overlap when it comes to time zones, right? When we can, we try to meet synchronously, but that's not always possible, right? When you have like a 12 hour time, time zone difference, not always possible. And so one of the things that we do is as much as possible when we're sharing a lot of information that is, that might be very dense, we'll also record ourselves or we'll send a screen recording like a loom. Trying to really clearly explain the decisions that we're making and how, how we're sharing these details.

**[24:24] Speaker B:** And that becomes just kind of like a really a team ritual. Another thing that we try to do is accommodate for other time zones when we can. So my team itself is distributed between, distributed all over the world. And so when we do our team syncs, we actually have two of them that alternate, that alternate on a bi monthly basis. So we have a global sync that'll happen earlier in the morning, early in the morning Like New York time. And that is the AMER EMEA time zone. And so, like, we have everyone that's joining from London, Germany, California, et cetera. And that's one of our global teams links. And then we'll alternate with a later one that's towards the end of the day, towards the end of the day in the ESC time zone that we're able to kind of meet with folks in jpeg.

**[25:17] Speaker B:** And so that way we're able to still continue to build some of these touch points where our entire team is connected.

**[25:25] Speaker B:** Aside from that, there's also things like off sites where teams will literally come together to make sure that we're still building that connection. And I'm really curious, before moving on to the next portion of, like, are there any other tools that you're using to kind of maintain that kind of cross time zone? Asynchronous, Asynchronous communication. And this one's open for everyone.

**[25:58] Speaker D:** I mean, I think just to reiterate and echo what you said, we do record a lot of meetings nowadays, especially when it's meetings that are meant to have, like, information that's broadcasted. I think that's also efficient because sometimes, yeah, you don't need to have the same meeting multiple times. So, yeah, I think video recording. And then also just embracing more of the informal, like, you know, on Slack huddling when you need to. And then even I think the team does this, continue it like the engineering team does, this continual Google hangout sometimes, where if they're just coding, they'll just be online. And if someone has a question, they pop it in. People can come in and out. So it's kind of meant to simulate what it's like to be in the office, even though people are virtual.

**[26:48] Speaker B:** Yeah. And then Slack is something that I've seen teams use, just kind of making sure that there's easy ways for us to just kind of pop in, send a chat, send a message, even outside of our time zones and being very cognizant of that. Like, there are tools like schedule send so that you're not sending a send to send somebody a message in the middle of the night. And some of these tools even let you see when somebody is outside of their working hours, so you can schedule that accordingly. Why don't we talk a little bit about, since we're talking about time, why don't we talk a little bit about how do you decide the cutoff point when things are moving quickly?

**[27:25] Speaker B:** You don't have all the time in the world. How do we make sure that when we're shipping something, it's good enough? Like when a deadline doesn't go as planned? What. What are you.

**[27:33] Speaker B:** What are you doing to kind of handle those moments?

**[27:38] Speaker B:** Why don't we start off with you, Francesco?

**[27:43] Speaker C:** Sure. I can share a few things that come to mind. And I would say it usually goes about establishing priorities from the beginning, like breaking down that problem and sort of into goals that could be from something P0, P1 or P2. And so once we have that, I think that gives us the chance to then look at things more incrementally and kind of.

**[28:08] Speaker B:** I'd also like to take a moment to pause real quick because I don't know if a lot of the students are familiar with P0, P1 and P2.

**[28:15] Speaker B:** Could you take a second just to explain what those are?

**[28:17] Speaker C:** Yeah, for sure. And it means as simple as, like, we have a problem, we have many ways to solve it. And as we establish what it is that could be started to be breaking down into different tasks or futures or steps. And as you do that, you can lay it out in a framework where you tend to prioritize in a P0 what's most important and then work your way towards.

**[28:42] Speaker C:** Well, maybe not. And that's subjective, right? Like you can establish your own, but as you get feedback input, you can then like re rank. Sometimes you do voting, sometimes you do tech dependencies. If it's like kind of too harder to figure it out, maybe that becomes either way, like up and down, depending on the priority.

**[29:01] Speaker C:** And then one way to understand P zeros could also be from like an MVP perspective. And sort of what makes an MVP like a minimum viable product. We sometimes refer to it as most lovable product too. Like what would users love the most to start and then kind of do fast follows. That's another way to do like, oh, we can launch this and what we can learn more or adopt and add later.

**[29:28] Speaker C:** And I think another framework which is from both working at startups and freelancing and here now is the North Star. So, like doing that larger vision or larger kind of like approach, I would say that is outside of the P series because that would be more for one area of it. But even expanding that notion of breaking down something into something more actionable goes a long way. And I would say the last thing I could add in there is using hypothesis as we drive our design process is really important as we design, iterate and then test. So those are a few things that inform how to manage your time, but also Resources and setting expectations.

**[30:16] Speaker B:** Yeah. So what I'm hearing from that is we have P0 is the stuff that absolutely has to get shipped by the deadline. P1 is the stuff that we absolutely want to work on, but it comes after the foundational parts of P0. And then P2 is stuff that would be great to work on, but currently is not the biggest priority. So maybe it's something that we'll work on afterwards or maybe we'll reevaluate when we get there.

**[30:41] Speaker B:** One of the things that I'd like to hear from you, Ezra, is just kind of like, how do you decide what those things are? Like, when, when? Like, how is that informed in the process?

**[30:53] Speaker D:** Yeah, it's a great question. And I think it goes back to what Francesco said about really being clear about what is this MVP or minimum viable product.

**[31:04] Speaker D:** So the thing for me as a product manager, when you think about it, from what are you trying to optimize for? When you're building a new feature, you really want to focus on speed of learning. Because I think a lot of times it's really easy to fall in love with an idea and really want to make it the best it can be you're shipping it to. Even if it's a small AB test, they still could be thousands or hundreds of thousands of users. So, you know, it's easy to want to spend a lot of time and make it, you know, perfect. But the thing we have to remember is the sooner that you can get it out in people's hands, the much quicker you are going to learn about what's working, what's not working. And so when I think about what is the MVP and what really are those P zeros, it's about thinking about, like, what is the hypothesis and what is the core essence of the product that we're trying to ship?

**[31:56] Speaker D:** What is the key user problem that we're trying to solve? What is the user need or the job to be done? Then thinking about of all of the scope of all of the ideas and the cool features that we want this product to have, what are the things that are critical?

**[32:10] Speaker D:** That's going to help me see that by having this set of features, we are going to actually help users accomplish this goal. Then you can add on top of that, you can add the P1s, the P2s, make it better over time, but you really want that early signal of is this something that is even valuable and resonating with users? So again, it's really about challenging, like, what is that core of the problem that we're solving and what do we need to have? Another thing that I like to do because I think when you're in it, it can be really easy to be like, oh, we can make this feature like a little bit better, we can add this animation, we can make this a little bit better from a tech standpoint. So what I like to do oftentimes with the team is define and go through these P zeros, the P1s and P2s, together.

**[32:57] Speaker D:** And so we're almost at the very beginning and so we're almost holding ourselves accountable. Like this is what we said. So now anytime we choose to do, you know, one of these ones, it's coming at a cost. It's, you know, we didn't, this is something that we didn't plan for. But again, it's, it's really good to keep, keep yourself accountable and have others there to do it as well. Because it can be really difficult when you are just really passionate about it and you want to make it as good as it can be. But that can come in time. It's really first and foremost important to prove out that this is actually something that we want to invest in more.

**[33:31] Speaker B:** Yeah. So there's two things that I'm seeing here that again, recurring themes documenting those decisions. Right when we're calling them P0, P1, P2, that's all of us aligning together and deciding that these are the things that are the most important and making sure that that decision is how we decide to spend our time. Like making sure that we're spending our time based on what we set are our priorities. Now, one thing that comes with that is that oftentimes this can lead to like some disagreements early on. How do you handle when your team disagrees on a direction? Like, what are some of the things that you do to settle that?

**[34:05] Speaker B:** Anjana, I'd like to hear your perspective on that.

**[34:08] Speaker E:** It kind of continues on to, from what ESRA Francesco was saying, like, we, you can't be married to an idea because data always speaks for itself. And you know, we are also, I guess being hypothesis driven and being user satisfaction driven are like quite like one of these things will always win out. So I guess it's. There's a lot about being objective like you. You have to find the balance in being passionate, being and really believing in yourself and knowing what's best, what actually, what actually works. And you also have to be open to iterating and moving fast away from things if you really need to.

**[34:44] Speaker B:** Okay, so I'm hearing It's a mix of things, right. It depends on your. It depends on priorities. But like one of the strategies that you often use is using data to kind of stay objective. There's also like, sometimes you just gotta go with your gut and do something that you're passionate about and just tell that story and get that buy in. So is there do. Do either. Do any of you have an example of like something that you like really were passionate about and had to push for.

**[35:16] Speaker B:** Francesco? It seems like you might have something.

**[35:19] Speaker C:** Sure. And I think outside of the specifics, I think what Andrew is saying is that sometimes like a project might come, like, let's say as a kind of like plan idea at the beginning. Some projects come later as we learn more.

**[35:33] Speaker C:** And I think being open to that, irrespective of the planning process, it's really helpful because you'd be surprised that sometimes it's like, oh, even the thing that wears out of your radar becomes like really meaningful. So I think kind of continuing like, yeah, that curiosity and also I believe to say almost like what do we need? And again, back to the frameworks that we shared and then being excited about what you will learn because working on growth, you kind of often balance in business and user needs. But some of the things can be. Seem really small, but have a very meaningful impact and vice versa. So I think it's always, yeah, like, kind of like not judging a book by its cover, but rather be interested in the process and ultimately kind of like vouching for the user and supporting what that is and understanding that you will learn more as you continue to do it.

**[36:32] Speaker B:** Yeah. At figma, one of the ways that we like to solve this is. Has anybody here seen Guardians of the Galaxy? One of the most best ways to for contact, conflict resolution, dance battle.

**[36:45] Speaker B:** That's how we make our decisions. I'm joking, of course, but one of the things that we like to do is trying to evaluate like how we can get some information really quickly. Right. Like not every decision has the same level of impact. We can decide what is something that we can learn from this and how reversible is this decision.

**[37:06] Speaker B:** So if we need to run an experiment to figure out how we want to move forward, when that reversibility isn't a big challenge, when it's really quickly for us to send out an example, do an experiment and get some results, that's what we'll do. And when something is going to be a major change that is going to be hard to walk back from, that's where we take extra Time to make sure that the decision we're making is going to be the right one. And so that's additional sessions of alignment, additional, like, conversations about, like, what do we think our North Star is? How do we make sure that we're solving the problems that our users need and bring that back to our decision making.

**[37:44] Speaker B:** So we're getting closer to the end of this. So I want to make sure that we also get some time to provide some advice for some of the students that are here. Right. Like, what are some of the things that you learned pretty early on? Or what's something that you learned the hard way that you wish somebody had told you when you would first started your career? Any pieces of advice?

**[38:02] Speaker B:** I'm gonna go ahead and start with Anjana for this one.

**[38:08] Speaker E:** I think it continues on to, from what I was saying before, not to be married to your ideas. Along with that is wisely choosing which hair you'll die on for certain things. I. I used to. I used to definitely have this thing early in my career where I was like, yeah, I'm going to fix everything. I can do everything if I put my mind to it.

**[38:27] Speaker E:** Sometimes you need to be able to take a step back and be like, no, I'm drawing a line. This is not my job. So I think this is not for me to fix. So I think choosing my hills to die on wisely is something I wish I'd learned much, much earlier.

**[38:44] Speaker B:** All right, so lesson number one. Pick your battles, maintain your energy on the things that are really important, and decide when you know it's okay to let something go. Israel, do you have any advice for your younger self?

**[38:59] Speaker D:** I do, actually.

**[39:00] Speaker B:** Yeah.

**[39:00] Speaker D:** And it goes back to the theme of communication.

**[39:03] Speaker D:** So my advice is make sure to bring people along the journey. I think when I was earlier on in my career, I used to think, okay, we have a problem. Let me go back, let me work on my team. Let me fix it, or figure out a solution and then bring it to, you know, to the audience and say, okay, aha, we've done it. We've found the solution.

**[39:21] Speaker D:** But oftentimes, if people, they're like, the right people, are not looped in, and if you're not communicating early and often and talking about what you're trying to achieve, why you're doing it, how you got to that point, it actually can cause some misalignment or even confusion and delays at the end. So, you know, embrace the story, tell the story, bring people along. And oftentimes, bringing people along will bring in new perspectives and ideas that can even challenge what you are thinking and make the overall solution that much better.

**[39:53] Speaker B:** All right, lesson number two. It's dangerous to go alone. Take your team with you and Francesco.

**[40:01] Speaker C:** Sure. And I think for me, lately, I've been reflecting on the power of just being concise and especially moving from more execution to strategy. That's something that I keep coming back to. And I think, as a designer, what that means is often crafting, like, a clear narrative, like, what's the core problem? What's my approach?

**[40:24] Speaker C:** And why does this matter? Or even what are the next steps? And I think you, by doing that, you do a lot of service to anyone around you to continue moving that along. I feel like that's one that stands out for me.

**[40:37] Speaker B:** Like, I'm gonna reframe that a little bit. Just kind of. It reminds me of something one of my professors used to say, which is a lesson that I all too often keep forgetting. But keep it simple. Stupid. That's it.

**[40:52] Speaker B:** Like, as soon as it's something that has been so helpful in my career, especially when I'm overthinking it. But that's the piece of advice that I'm hearing from there. Does that sound right, Francesco?

**[41:05] Speaker C:** More or less. And I think it's also the fact that, oh, if I can explain it quickly, then I'm kind of already done, like, a really good sort of job at, like, simplifying it. And that doesn't mean it's bad, but rather, like, we can continue to talk about the next things or, like, you know, save people time. It's almost like, coming from that empathy place, And I think I might not use that word, but I would say more of, like, the. Yeah, like, less is more like that.

**[41:36] Speaker C:** Yeah, that could be better.

**[41:38] Speaker B:** Yeah. Awesome. And then for me, like, one of the things that I wish someone had told me earlier is that it's more important to be consistent and coachable than it is to be perfect all the time done is better than perfect. And being a teammate that you're being somebody that your team can rely on becomes so much more important for your career than having, like, a single spotlight moment.

**[42:05] Speaker B:** Like, your career is a marathon. Take your time and find. Find the things that, you know you're really passionate about and make sure that you're a reliable, dependable person. I'm going to move on to just kind of a last question about skills. So if any of these junior designers wanted to work on a team like yours, what are the things that they should focus on? Like, what are the things that they should be building right now or seeking out right now to look to, to, to, you know, to find their way.

**[42:44] Speaker B:** Oh, sorry. Starting you with you, Francesco.

**[42:49] Speaker C:** Sure, I can jump in. And I would say for me and sort of in my journey, I would say I really value when folks have like interdisciplinary experiences. I think you were talking about that initially, like all the things that you have done, Akbar. And so I think bringing that empathy to the way you work and how you collaborate with others as you find yourself, let's say as a designer, you're not often working with many designers, but rather with a full, full room of other kinds of people. So bringing that, I think it's a good superpower and another one that's really close to that. It's having a passion and sort of learners mindset about it and sort of. I think that always served me well in my experience and I think I alluded to it and I, in the beginning, I try to also be just like organized within the chaos and that again comes from freelance or in a startup or in a larger organization.

**[43:44] Speaker C:** Now I think doing that allows you to really be an expert in the room, in the craft that you're in. So like the whole thing might not be super organized, but if you have your stuff together, I think that again goes a long way. So those are a couple of things that have worked out for me.

**[44:02] Speaker C:** Not all of them at the same time. Sometimes you're just leaning more into one of them and then that's okay. There's always a time and setting. So like don't, don't expect all this to be 100, but rather fluctuate within the time. Maybe some projects have someone else that's already doing that so you can step back and rely on that.

**[44:21] Speaker C:** And sometimes you are the one that like needs to show up and provide that. So I think reading the Room is another one. I would add in there.

**[44:28] Speaker B:** Reading the Room is a great one. Anjana, do you have like, what, what's a skill that you think somebody should be working on right now?

**[44:37] Speaker E:** I would say more than skills, it's a mindset thing. Like the willingness to learn and being curious goes so long, goes such a long way. Like, even if it's not your, like you can be really great at your craft, but also learning other things about what other people do is so important. And I feel like just being passionate about what you, what you do also really stands out and I would say a mindset, mindset shift about failures. Like, I feel like we're all wired, think failure is bad.

**[45:10] Speaker E:** But it's not. So just changing, just, just. That is also really helpful.

**[45:16] Speaker B:** I think that's a great one. And it just kind of reminds you, like, that's one of the skills that as students you have or the opportunities that you have the most is to embrace your curiosity and find all the different areas that you can kind of like.

**[45:32] Speaker B:** Israel, is there anything that you would like to add?

**[45:35] Speaker D:** Yeah, I think, you know, especially at the early stages of your career, just be a sponge. You know, everyone that you meet, you're going to be able to learn so much, and in every single discipline, you're going to be able to learn something different. So, you know, ask the questions, even if they seem basic, you're going to learn so much from that. Just being curious, being open.

**[45:55] Speaker D:** And then I think for me, one of the things that was really important is, you know, don't be afraid to just roll up your sleeves and kind of jump into something. Even if you feel like you're not ready, even if you maybe have read about it or theoretically done it in the past, you know, doing is the best way to learn and failing and trying new things and seeing what works for you and what doesn't. So just, yeah, just jump right in and, you know, ask for feedback early and often and be willing to learn and to grow.

**[46:25] Speaker B:** That's. That's one of my favorite mottos.

**[46:28] Speaker B:** Nikes. Just do it. Like that's the difference between you and an expert. Right.

**[46:34] Speaker B:** One of the things that I would say that kind of reiterates something that we've all been talking about is communication. It's like really invest in being able to share your ideas really quickly. Share really quickly and really concisely. Right. Communication is going to be such a powerful skill regardless of the type of role that you're in, whether you're a developer, whether you're a designer, whether you're working in product, it's going to be really important to be able to express your ideas, build trust with others, and get that buy in to make some really cool decisions in your career.

**[47:12] Speaker B:** So we have a little bit of time and I wasn't sure if we were going to get to do this, but I kind of want to do the lightning round. Are you all game? Let's do it. So this lightning round is going to be. Since we are all.

**[47:26] Speaker B:** Y' all are all from Spotify, if your product team was a music genre, what would it be? Starting with Israel?

**[47:36] Speaker D:** I would say probably something like rock. So something that's classic, you know, it's got a Little bit of everything for everyone. And there's so many different genres that it really has range and is very, very diverse. So that's my answer there.

**[47:53] Speaker E:** I have to echo Sansa Rock. So many different genres. We can. And just sets a good vibe always.

**[48:01] Speaker B:** Francesca.

**[48:04] Speaker C:** Yeah, plus one. And maybe from the fusion side, just like, add, like, other things in it, but like a very, like, eclectic group of. Group of people.

**[48:14] Speaker B:** Okay, if you had to pick a song that described your team during crunch time, what would it be? We're going to start with you, Francesca.

**[48:26] Speaker C:** I think, if anything, I would think, like, maybe Under Pressure Queen and Bowie, just because everyone's, like, on it, but like, at the same time really caring and loving about how to get there. So I feel like that one, yeah.

**[48:40] Speaker B:** We'Re going with Under Pressure esra.

**[48:45] Speaker D:** So it's a cheesy one, but I think Eye of the Tiger because it's very on the nose. It's very, like, okay, let's, you know, focus. Let's get it. But it's also kind of cheesy and, like, playful and funny and it's, yeah, like, ironic. And I feel like the team is just, you know, is able to focus and really, like, get things done, but also have that lightness and jokes and some of the most funny memories I've had at Spotify were in those crunch time moments.

**[49:08] Speaker D:** And it's all because of that sort of vibe of the team being able to be playful while getting work done.

**[49:14] Speaker B:** Awesome. And Anjana.

**[49:16] Speaker E:** Oh, I think it's actually going to be like either Bohemian Rhapsody or Don't Stop Me now by Queen.

**[49:22] Speaker B:** Both great choices.

**[49:25] Speaker E:** Yeah. Sticking with the same genres and even some common artists here, but it's gonna be.

**[49:30] Speaker B:** I appreciate the teamwork in Bohemian Rhapsody, you know. Okay, final question. If Spotify Wrapped exists, existed for your teamwork, what would your team's top stat be?

**[49:41] Speaker B:** And we're gonna start with you, Engineer.

**[49:45] Speaker E:** I think the team that. That has the most fun while getting everything done, like, that's what that. That's who we are, I think.

**[49:53] Speaker B:** Okay.

**[49:53] Speaker E:** Most fun while getting good time with each other, no matter what.

**[49:57] Speaker B:** Ezra.

**[49:59] Speaker D:** I would say collaboration, like, everyone is super willing to, you know, step up, ask for if anyone needs any help. So it's, yeah, one of the most collaborative teams I've ever been on.

**[50:09] Speaker B:** And finally, Francesco.

**[50:12] Speaker C:** Yeah, I think mine is less, like, work stuff, but more like what feeds it. And it could be everyone's big reader. So I feel like there's always, like, good, like, you know, discussions or content about, like, what everyone's up to. So something bookworm, like book. Book related.

**[50:30] Speaker B:** Okay, bookworms. And then let's do some live audience Q A. We've gotten a few questions, some great questions from our students. One of the the ones that I'd like to see here is how do you deal with working with a teammate that can be a micromanager or over explained with Scope. Scope group.

**[50:50] Speaker B:** And I think, isra, I'm going to start with you just because in your work as product, I'm sure you deal with that a lot.

**[50:59] Speaker D:** Yeah, absolutely. I think micromanaging and you know, in general with this sort of thing, everyone is coming into work to make the best product and the best, you know, do the best that they can. And so I think sometimes micromanagement maybe can come from a place where someone feels like they don't have control over a situation. They don't know all the information. So for me, I find if something like this is happening and if you have a teammate that's, you know, seems to be micromanaging, actually be proactive and just set up a conversation with them and you know, kind of walk them through like, hey, do you have any questions? Or I'd love to run you through the approach that we're doing. Do you have any feedback? Because I think once they feel like again, part of the journey, part of the discussion, it's easier for them to kind of be like, okay, I understand what the plan is.

**[51:45] Speaker D:** Like, this is what's going to happen. And it gives them also a chance to, you know, give feedback at the right moments when you kind of built that process in versus them feeling like an outsider and needing to kind of check in on everything.

**[51:58] Speaker D:** So I feel like, you know, just really be proactive and set up that time with them and try to walk them through it, see what's top of mind. A question I like to ask people is, you know, what's. What's keeping you up at night? What is the big concern that you have with this? And so oftentimes that question helps illuminate what are they really afraid of happening? What can you do to prevent that or de risk that from happening?

**[52:22] Speaker B:** It's awesome. I really appreciate the dimension of just building some empathy where it's usually coming from a place of fear and not necessarily animosity. And so building that trust over communicating can kind of help help combat it and then also kind of get rid of it altogether. Francesco, would you have anything to add?

**[52:48] Speaker B:** Awesome. I will do another question that I think is going to be great for Everyone, we're going to start with you. Francesco, since you're such a bookworm, what book do you recommend every student here to read? Pick one.

**[53:04] Speaker C:** Sure. I think recently I've been more on like fiction, so I could start with just like one that I've been reading more over the last few years, which is called the overstory. And it just in general gets you out of that perspective of sort of yourself, but rather in a larger context. And it does it so much that it even puts it in the timeline of trees. And I think sometimes, like within design, I find that we can be so caught up with our project and with our immediate stuff and sort of lose the big picture. So that always sort of reminds me to take a step back, you know, I'll get back to you tomorrow or even like with more energy and a fresher brain, I can look at this designs differently because I think again, you're often in your own little pigment, your own world.

**[53:52] Speaker C:** So it's one that I've been returning to and for design design books. I can probably like share some later on the recap or whatnot. But like, that's one that I've been.

**[54:05] Speaker B:** Coming back to the overstory.

**[54:08] Speaker C:** Richard Powers.

**[54:09] Speaker B:** Anjana. Do you have a book recommendation?

**[54:12] Speaker E:** I'm a big reader, so I always have a lot of recommendations for design, design related things, career related things. I recommend Conversational Design by Erica Hall. I think it's very. It is, it is. I think it should be mandated reading, especially in today's time of where everything is pretty much getting conversational, as that book is great to read no matter what in no matter what your role is for. It's really hard for me to pick a book. I read a lot of fiction because it's a.

**[54:42] Speaker E:** Like Francesca said, it kind of helps me escape into someone else's world for a bit rather than focusing on my own. And I'm currently reading a book by a debut book by a Croatian author called Lydia Hillia. The book is called Slanting towards the Sea and it's just beautifully written and it's very vulnerable and I'm really enjoying just living in someone else's mind for a bit. So that's currently what I'm reading and it's great.

**[55:07] Speaker B:** Awesome. So that's conversational design and Slanting by the Sea or Slanting towards the Sea. Israel.

**[55:15] Speaker D:** Yeah. Actually, when you asked this question, a book immediately came to mind and it's one of my favorite books of all time and it's Creativity Inc. So this is kind of a long time I mean, it was published a while ago now, but it's basically the story of Disney and Pixar and kind of how they run such a creative company.

**[55:33] Speaker D:** And I think there's just so many gems there, both in terms of process. How do you, like, create, you know, systems where you're able to, like, constructively, like, feedback on creative ideas that are very, very, you know, subject. Like it's a story. There's. It's not really like this is the problem we're trying to solve.

**[55:51] Speaker D:** So I think that's something that you can learn so much about that will translate to your day to day in any role. And I think my favorite learning from that book, and I still think about it like every day, is basically the worst thing that the advice is. The worst thing that you can do when you're at a crossroads is to stand at the crossroad and try to figure out, like, should we do A or B or A or B? And, you know, just be in your head. But the faster you go in one direction, the quicker that you're going to learn. Okay, this is not it. And then you go back, pivot, and then move forward. So, yeah, there's just tons of gems. And I'm a big Pixar fan, so, yeah, it was really a fun one for me to read.

**[56:30] Speaker B:** Yeah, that sounds like a great one.

**[56:33] Speaker B:** I'm really excited about to. To use my learning budget to get all these books. I'll drop one in for myself, which is start with why by Simon Sinek. I read it pretty recently, maybe in the last couple months, and I think it just illustrates something that we're all doing as designers, as developers, as product creators. Is something that we can kind of get lost in. Is like the hype of everything that's going on around us. But the teams that often find the most success are the ones that are focused on what the problem is and working towards that instead of basing it on assumptions or basing it on resources. You don't always need the most resources to get the right answer.

**[57:18] Speaker B:** And I will hand it back to Joanna to wrap us out because we are getting close to time. Thank you so much.

**[57:24] Speaker C:** Perfect.

**[57:25] Speaker A:** Give me one second to do some technical transitioning.

**[57:31] Speaker C:** I lost all of our skills.

**[57:33] Speaker B:** Speakers.

**[57:36] Speaker B:** One second.

**[57:38] Speaker A:** Fun part about Zoom and having a million tabs open is you can never find everyone else's tab.

**[57:43] Speaker E:** Okay, let me add spotlights as Joanne is doing that.

**[57:50] Speaker B:** I'll remind everyone to make sure you scan that QR code and leave the feedback form so that you can get a chance to win a few tickets to config.

**[57:58] Speaker A:** Yes.

**[57:59] Speaker A:** Okay. Thank you all so much for joining us and especially if you join us for all three sessions.

**[58:03] Speaker D:** Thank you.

**[58:04] Speaker A:** Thank you, thank you. Be sure to say thank you also to our panelists today. They've done a wonderful job talking about collaboration, communication and we love these little lessons that they've packed into the books that they're talking about as well as potentially their Spotify wraps. So thank you all so much for joining us. And before you head out, we'd love to hear what you thought of the session as well as all the sessions. If you've been to multiple, please be sure to fill out this quick feedback form. It helps us improve and it also also is what will allow you to enter to win one of three config tickets we're giving away.

**[58:35] Speaker A:** So Alex will continue to drop that in the chat. And thank you all again for joining us. And again, thank you to our panelists for being here.