Transcript
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The host opens the monthly pitch practice session, explains the format, and introduces the guest panelists. Sid gives a brief background on his experience in early-stage business, investing, and teaching.
Speaker A
Foreign.
Well, as we always start our sessions, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to our monthly pitch practice session.Today we have four of our startups in our cohorts presenting for everyone in the audience.Please note that these startups were registered in advance to pitch.Please don't ping me asking if you can pitch today.Feel free to keep an eye on our Slack channel for future sessions.
And upon readiness, you're more than welcome to sign up and attend one of these sessions.So I'm very pleased and grateful to announce our guest, Mr. Sid Mahasib.And Alex will also be on the panel for the feedback session to start.Let me have Sid, if you don't mind, please, a quick intro.I would really appreciate it for all of our new founders.
Speaker B
Sure.Sid Mohas here.I've been involved in early stage business for almost 30 years, have started myself a few companies and exited, taken in public or through the exit process.And I now do a few things.I am a professor at usc.
I'm an author, write books because I think I have something to share.That's part of being old and thinking that you've, you, you can, you could part some, I don't know, old or stale wisdom of some sort.And I still make investments in early stage companies and sit on a number of boards.
Speaker A
Thank you so much.Appreciate it.And Alex will also be on the panel.I believe everyone knows Alex, so let's go ahead and get started.Our presenter, Katie, please go ahead.
Katie presents Eliconis, explaining her personal motivation, the problem of credential gaps, and her platform for tracking learning and skills. She covers the market, business model, growth plan, and fundraising ask.
Speaker C
Hello.Let me share my screen.
Get this into presentation mode.
Okay?Everybody see that?Okay.Can you hear me okay?
Speaker A
Yes, go ahead, please.
Speaker C
Okay, so I wanted to open with this photo of me.I'm graduating community college and this is my son.I was 26, he was 8.I'm Katie Stroud and I am the founder and CEO of Eliconis.And we are working to disrupt the economy of education worldwide.
I grew up in a really large family.40 cousins.Many of them didn't even graduate high school, much less go to college.
They are among the 70 million people who are skilled with no degree.They have no record, no credential, and they have no way to compete.Their paychecks are 66% smaller.Excuse me, I had water here.
Their paychecks are 66% smaller than degree holders and less than 0.14% of skill based hires go to someone without a degree.And this last stat bothers me the most.So there's 71% of entry level jobs.That's just getting your foot in the door at the ground floor.Require a degree and that's up from 55% the previous year.
So the problem isn't access to learning because that is happening everywhere.The problem is the absence of consolidated proof.
So what's the solution for this?I think that it's technology for personal learning management.It's a formal record where you can track what you learn, you can find guidance so that you can earn more, you can compete with other people who have degrees and you can qualify for those jobs that require some kind of credential.
Eliconis is what we built as a solution.It's the hub for all things learning.It's a software platform where users can assess their skill gaps, define a path for learning.They work with a community and they share their record to compete for jobs.So that's a record that you own forever and it offers direction, not just tracking.
There's a built in assessment and AI to help with that.Users control what they want to share and when and it has an embedded community to help them get through those things that are tough to do on your own.
Our market for this is 43 billion.We figure that if 2 billion adults worldwide are potential users and that 5% of them are paying subscribers, along with marketplace and employer portals and advertising, that nets out to around 43 billion.For the, the SAM, the achievable market, we're looking at 456 million people who are Internet connected who could actually sign up.They're reachable today.And for our sam, we're looking at cumulative revenue projections across subscriptions, marketplace and portals and advertising for about $107 million.
Our business model to kick off simple, it's B2C.We are trying to grow a massive user base so it's free for everyone.It's always going to be free.They get profile, they can add ED units, they have a community and they have limited AI use.So up to about five prompts a day, subscribers get full AI access and pathway builders and guidance.
They'll get exclusive deals.As we build into a marketplace, they'll be invited to cap and gown events and they get a premium badge to show their their premium status.So later we want to move into provider, marketplace, employer workforce, portals and advertising.But we want to introduce those as we build stability for each market.
For our financial projections, we're starting out by trying to, not trying to.We have plans to hit 100,000 users as quickly as possible now that we've released, we've actually released this August 28th.So our focus now is going to be on marketing, ad Users, users.Users reaching 100,000 by the end of 2027.That gets us to about five, four and a half thousand paying subscribers.
And as we hit that milestone, we'll look at building that marketplace to increase the value to users, continue to grow that market and work with that marketplace and from there look at advertising and employee portals to continue to grow that, that revenue.
And how we're going to do that is it's a mix of, mix of some organic things that are going to be free to us, things like content marketing.We've already kicked off a show called what's yous College Story that we're trying to grow and get people's attention with.It's very personal stories about how people have struggle to get that degree and, and we're trying to build that culture and that mission so that people will refer it, they're going to share their portfolios, invite other people to come in.So that's a referral flywheel we can leverage.We're going to be getting some earned press and media, brand name providers.I'll get to that in a minute.And working with influencers who are already advocating and consulting on education.They can show our platform as a tool.And so that's, that's for the active upscaler.We're going to target these users first because they already get what it means to have a credential for, for what they know.
They're already on social media and reading the press and working on other platforms already to do this.So it's, we feel just a simple push to give them a place to record all that.Beyond that, we're going to reach out to an untapped market of people that are out there working to survive.People like my cousins who just need to survive and they're not even thinking about school.So we want to make partnerships with employment offices, local college fairs and job fairs to.
Speaker A
You're coming up to eight minutes.
Speaker C
Really?Oh my gosh.Okay.Okay, so almost done here.
The competitive landscape I mentioned, brand name providers, people who are already on, on.Already on these platforms will, can also be users on Ella Conus.And we don't try to take those users, we share them.Because people who are on LinkedIn learning might also be taking courses on Coursera or Khan Academy.All of that progress can be tracked in Ella Conis.
And our team, of course, is our most important asset.I'm the one with the founder's story.I also have over 20 years of instruction, instructional design and ad tech experience.Dan Brackett, Serial entrepreneur, founded Extreme Reach, which reached a successful exit in 2022.Tom Jacob is well connected with his military background in colleges and government agencies and that sets him up to be our VP of Business development.
Isera is a a student in computer science with a focus on AI and machine learning and is our lead developer.
So we're raising mostly to market, raising 550,000 pre seed via safe with a $5 million pre money valuation cap for an 18 month Runway.That gets us our product built to scale.We'll be putting about half of that into marketing and growth to help us reach that user base.It gives us 18 months to prove the model and stability for moving into that next phase.
I want to thank you.I wanted just to add that I got lucky to get my foot in the door.Having a kid out of high school was a real barrier to getting to school and I know a lot of people like that and I know that they all are learning and we want to give them a place to, to share that.Thank you and let's talk.
Speaker A
Thanks, Katie.
Sid gives feedback on Katie's positioning, suggesting she frame the company as an aggregator of accomplishments rather than an education disruptor. He also critiques the market sizing and recommends a clearer networking-based growth story.
Speaker A
Sid, go ahead please.
Speaker B
Sure.
Good job in packaging things.Katie, I've had a conversation with you on the hot seat before, so I'm a little familiar with what you, what you do.It's a much better overall packaging.But let me give you some, some feedback.
Let's start with the positioning.
I love the statistics that you shared in terms of the 70 million and so forth.I'm not sure about that.0.14%.I think that's a little bit of distracting information because then you start calculating.It seems a little bit weird, but we can get into it.
So your statistics shows the, the, the size of the problem.
One issue that I have is the framing of disrupting the economy of education.
You're not disrupting the economy of education.In my opinion, you are disrupting the economy of the uneducated.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker B
Which is, which is significantly different.One puts you in the education business,
Speaker C
right?
Speaker B
Where you're really not competing with Khan Academy or Coursera.You're, you're just wanting to get all, if I, if I understood it correctly, you want to get all of, of that content, everything that people have done and have people have a story to tell about what they have done, whether they're in technical school or college or whatever.
Speaker C
Right?
Speaker B
So you're not changing the economy of education business.
You're not in the education business.You're changing the economy of the uneducated.
Speaker C
Right?Yes.Okay, that, that's fair.It makes sense.
Speaker B
No, that completely changes.If I, if I may suggest the, the pitch
Speaker A
position
Speaker B
and the position and puts you against, you know, maybe I would even say some level of.
It puts you against the non profits a little bit.It puts you against a different class of competitors because you're an aggregator in a way.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
You're an aggregator and I think overall positioning yourself as an aggregator of accomplishment,
Speaker C
that's a good term.I like that.
Speaker B
Okay.As an aggregator of an.Of accomplishments and you're disrupting the economy how people make a living of the uneducated.Now that I think is a nice clean space for you to be able to excel at.
Right.Because right now, again, I knew what you did, so.But if I wanted to independently listen to the pitch, I would have been confused.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker C
Understand
Speaker B
there again the competitive stuff I talked to you about the.
I think your psalm and Sam and stuff is a little bit aggressive and mis.Mis presented.Maybe you could start by saying there are 2 billion people in the world that fall into this category of less than ideal educated.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
But we can't solve all of that problem because of the Internet and because of the access and because of the financial gain that reduces the size of who really is our customers to this and that even reduces the size to who actually is the, is the group that is open to change.
Open to.Because a lot of those people aren't open.It's not that they don't have access.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
And I don't know how you define that, but it would be a better funneling structure for you to get to those number of people.And I don't think you switch between US statistics and the global statistics in terms of 540 million.I understand as entrepreneurs you all want to, you know, they tell you, hey, the bigger the market, the better.And people get excited about the exits and all that sort of stuff.But too big of numbers, where the reality is detached reduces the value of what you do it.If that makes sense, it, it makes it less achievable.
Now so the 540 million people or whatever the number does that, it's a, it's a, it's a distraction in, in my opinion it reduces the credibility of what you're offering.Now let's go to your attraction and the hundred thousand.
Saying that we're going to have social media and whatever.Whatever.I think you need a better networking system.And let me explain what I mean this is.I'm adding to your, to your business model,
Speaker C
which
Speaker B
may or may not work.I'm just thinking out loud this thing that I'm going to go viral and then people, these are people who, who have an economic issue.They're at work from, you know, from 7:00 o'clock in the morning.They have child, it's not that they're sitting in front of their, you know, and there are some things you can learn from like wacobe or other online people that what is smu?And some of those guys are attracting the same essential community.But I think the way you get that is the cousin business, what you're doing to your other cousins.They can do their, to their cousins.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
So your idea, and you do have some of this thing about musing.
You had the lift up or something, I don't know what you called it.Groups.I think creating a different business model that, because people, investors particularly that they're, their confidence drops the minute you say, oh, we're going to get social media and we're going to do this and people are going to be, and they're going to be 100 million.Everybody says that.But I think you have a particular lift each other up type of situation that could create that networking business.And you could test it.If you've, if you've had your app up, you could test it.But if I'm going up, I want to take somebody else up with me, I'm going to hold somebody else's hand and that networking could be the way to grow.Social media is very expensive.With your 550,000 people business to consumer, you're not going to be able to get a hundred thousand people with the money that you have.
A lot more than that because it's expensive.So I guess what I'm suggesting is a repositioning I, I, I like, it's a lot more cleaner.Your genuineness comes through the presentation.I think you were a little nervous, but that's okay.
And, and you did go a little long.You spend a little too much on some, on some slides, but slides were clean.And I think with a little bit of adjustment of positioning, you'll have something that would be, that would, that would get traction.
Alex and Katie discuss page numbering, market segmentation, and how the financial model should align with the business model. They focus on the tension between free users, premium users, and future B2B revenue.
Speaker C
All right, thank you very much.
Speaker A
Thank you.And
Speaker C
my script said it was five minutes, but actually delivering it, not so much.
Speaker B
What, what did they say?I think it was Mike Tyson, the boxer, who says that everybody has a plan until they get faced with a puncher.Punch
Speaker A
in the face.Yeah.
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker A
Alex.
Speaker D
Okay.Thank you so much, Katie, for the presentation.Do you mind to share your screen one more time?
Speaker C
Sure.
Okay,
Speaker D
so I'm going to give you, you did a great job and, and Sid already covered most of the feedback.But I just want to just, just share my feedback.First of all, make sure that you all your pages has a page number.This is cosmetic but very important because 50% of your presentation is you.50% is Q& A part of the Q and A.To save time, typically investors refer to the page number because they don't remember the page.And so they write down the page number to help them to ask all their questions.As part of the Q and A, I highly recommend that add page number visible, easy to read for investors.That is a cosmetic kind of like feedback that I have for you.
So I completely agree with Seed.You are in trying to help underserved and underrepresented community.Right.So if we go with that approach because that was part of your problem.Your solo, your market opportunity is wrong to in my opinion.
So you have to go and find what is the percentage of underrepresented and underserved community.And when you are talking about adult I was not clear.Are you talking about 21 plus?Are you talking about 40 plus, 50 plus?So I was not clear which segment you're trying to address and serve the community.
My.Another feedback for you is that if you go with under save and underrepresented, your entire kind of Tam, Sam and song is going to change.Can you go to your market opportunity?
So if, if these numbers are going to change, if these numbers are going to change, your financial projection is going to change too, right?
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker D
And then, then if you go to your financial projection, what is your business model?Can you go to your business model before?Business model?
Speaker C
Yeah.It's
Speaker D
$220 per person, right?Per account?
Speaker C
Yeah.
Speaker D
Now go to financial projection.
Multiply 7.9 thousand in 2028 9.
So how many?How many?So is this the sum of 7.5000 multiply $220.How much is that?
Speaker C
So the, the trick with these paid users is that around 20, 28, 29 we start to add different business units that that leverage providers who are charging for their courses and it
Speaker D
was not part of your business model.So this is very confusing because you're talking about $220 and then I'll multip years.None of them makes sense.If you have plan to add a new business model, it should be on your business model.You should explain that in next year or in two years you're gonna just open for XYZ and these type of organizations and we are expecting to charge them each.How much?Dollar.
Speaker C
Okay, I.This
Speaker D
is in your head, right?Good.
Speaker C
I Had a slide for that.That break broke it down a lot more.It was, it was really busy and, and I figure for this I have, I have spreadsheets that, that lay it all out.
And I thought that maybe speaking to it that, that it's more than just subscriptions the first year.It is that.But we're looking to move into building a marketplace that will help fuel revenue.
Speaker D
Right.
Speaker C
Bringing in advertising as that stabilizes and then employee portals and employee portals end up being a, a bigger source of revenue towards the end.
Speaker D
Right, but
Speaker A
that would help.
Speaker D
Yeah.I think you see like people, like people on this call, they don't, they have no idea about the background why you remove that busiest.And you don't need to explain that on the call to investors.Oh, sorry.I just, you know, I had five other slides and removed them because it was confusing.My suggestion for you is that if you are trying to introduce that package next year or two years, put it on your business model the way that is easy to understand because people come like they come to this page and they multiply your numbers to see based on $220 how much is going to be your revenue.Which then they say okay, all these numbers doesn't make sense.And they make a judgment call and you know, and they might not even ask a follow up question from you and you don't want to put yourself in the position to explain for 2 minutes, 3 minutes why these numbers are not matching to your business model.
Does it make sense?Again, that's my feedback.So just make it easy for people to understand because I don't know.I mean now you're telling me that there was another model that you're trying to charge people which is not part of your business model.So that is that confusion comes.
Speaker C
Yeah.And the idea there is that to build all those at once would be boiling the ocean.Right.So I express my business model as B2C and I just add notes that we're going to add additional models which are B2B later down the road.It's just that about.
Maybe I can be more clear about that.That building the user base makes building those units later more profitable.
Speaker D
Definitely.And, and I agree with seed in 2026, Katie, most of the companies try that are successful.There are the compounds that early they try to monetize their platform.
When you have a free and premium, most of the people are going to move to the free package.It's going to take a lot of time for you to get to cash, become cash flow positive.And if you don't have enterprise.Now you're telling me that you have.You're going to have enterprise version of this.It's going to change.But if it's going to stay B2C then, then, then with the model that you have, free and premium is going to take a lot of time to make, you know, to to become cash flow positive and you need a lot of more marketing dollars to to to get again cash flow positive or become profitable business.
The panel pushes Katie to clarify what kind of learning the product covers and who the core user is. Sid reframes the company as improving economic livelihood, while Alex emphasizes the need for a narrower initial category.
Speaker D
And then my next comment for you, can you go to your product slide?
I don't see it.Let me just see if it's in me or I don't see half of your page.Maybe
Speaker A
you're you're.I think you need to reshare.Stop sharing.Sharing.Katie, something strange happened.
Speaker D
Long story short, I was not clear.When you're talking about learning, what does that mean?Are we learning about people want to become doctors, scientists, what kind of learning you're talking about?So you see the, the hall for all things learning.This is very broad and I was not clear what topics, what industries, what categories, what kind of like learning you're talking about for adults.
And when you're talking inside the product slide, the expectation is to understand, you know, when you're talking about learning what kind of learning you're talking about.Do you want to make underserved all postdocs and scientists or you want to just teach them how to fix their home?That is learning too.
Speaker C
Yeah,
Speaker D
you want to tell.
So it is not clear to me, to be honest, what is the product?I understand learning, but I don't know what is the product about.So my recommendation for you is that maybe Sid didn't ask this question because he already spoke with you previously so he knows exactly what type of learning you're talking about.But overall, as an audience, like, no, forget about me.Like people on the call, I don't think people understood like what kind of learning you're talking about.What what kind of like do you have any segmentation?Do we have any user Personas?Are we talking about.
Speaker C
It's everything.An apprenticeship, a trade job, school, local community libraries offer local learning.
And the goal is to get all of that available to contribute to a profile that says I've learned all these things,
Speaker D
right?So again, that is going to be your choice and this is your company.But based on my experience, if you go broad, it's going to be very hard for you to build the core users and early adopters for your product.If you look at any company, different industries from edtech to transportation from Uber to Airbnb to Yelp to any company as far as I remember, I'm sure I can guarantee even Coursera.And those companies also serve with one category.The category that is, is the cell cycle is cheap and shorter and fast.You can close customers, you can dominate that category.Then you expand to other categories and other different sort of learnings because.Because each people have different interests.
If you, if you want to, if you start communicating with people, come here.If you don't know how to do coding, I will teach you the coding or they will give you all the learning around coding.You know, who's your audience people are looking for to learn how to code, right?If you tell people that I want to teach you how to fix your car or home and become like, spend less money to fix things inside your house, you know, who's your audience?That.That is different type of learning.If you go broad, oh, come here.I will teach you.I think you never build that core.That is my personal experience.Again, maybe I'm wrong.I would love to hear from seed his opinion, but again, I, I feel that when you go very broad and you don't have segmentation, very hard
Speaker B
in the interest of, in the interest of time.I know we're, we've got four different folks and let me, let me, let me, let me kind of repackage what, what Alex is, is saying.I'd say in, in a different way.
I think you're an aggregator.At the end of the day, you may be, I don't know the kayak for, you know, for learning experiences.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
But I think your, your background and who you are and what you really believe in and what you have focused on is how can I make these people earn more?It's not how can I make them fix their, you know, stuff at home better?
So anything that economically enhances the livelihood of your audience.So your pitch isn't come learn coding,
Speaker C
right?
Speaker B
Like Alex was saying, I think your pitch is, you can be more, you can, you can get more, you can have a better life.That's what moves people to come to you.
And then they have a menu of things like in kayaks, you know, you could, you can have an experience and vacationing, and then when you go there, there are different options and different things.And then you could track it.Oh, where have you I been, what I done?So I think the question is not defining the type of the learning.The question is if you position yourself as you are, you are impacting the economic livelihood of the people with it's not the learning.
Learning is a means to an end.It's not the end.
Speaker C
Right, right.It's the, the way to get there.
Speaker B
But your presentation, your positioning, your thing is about the means to get there.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
But your, your, your business is about enhancing their economic livelihood of people.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
You're not an education company.
Speaker C
Right.
Which is really hard when people ask you what, what your company industry is.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's what, what we do is we help people, we help people get what they deserve economically.
Speaker C
Right.Okay.
Speaker B
How do you do that?We provide them with learning opportunities, get them what they can do, position them to learn more, get them.That's what we do.We get them to be more.We get them to be economically get what they deserve.But your presentation is more about the learning part and not the.
So that says.Okay, so what do they like?The question Alex was saying what kind of learning where anything that enhances their economic value.
Speaker C
Right, right, exactly.So
Speaker B
that could be, that could be, that could be, you know.Yeah.And we're going to have partners and by the way, having.I'm going to use Kayak again or I'm going to use Expedia or whatever.Expedia is a, is a consumer facing B2C business.
Their content comes from other businesses.So their suppliers are other businesses.
Speaker C
Right.
Speaker B
Your business model doesn't change.You're still selling to these guys.
Speaker C
Yes.
Speaker B
Okay.Your, your, your target is the consumer.Your content comes from the business.
Speaker C
Right,
Speaker B
Right.So.
Speaker C
Correct.
Speaker B
But again, Alex was right.Your presentation doesn't show that you are an aggregator.
It kind of leaves you, leaves it to the imagination.Okay.Where does the content come?Are you a technical school?Are you a, you know, you follow everything.
Are you a content creator?Then why are you putting yourself against those other content creators?It, it becomes confusing in what you do.I think you have your mission and the way you're delivering that mission intermingled.
Speaker C
Okay.
That's, that gives me some ideas for some changes.And with the competitive analysis, like I can't find any other company that does this.I, it's just so, so
Speaker B
the best I could do
Speaker C
is
Speaker B
so, so it's okay.The way you presented is, is, is, is here's the content providers, here's the, the schools and whatever online offline, and here's us.We connect these two things together.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker A
All right.
Speaker B
And I love giving examples of people that I already, you could say, think of Hotel.com.think of iActo.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker B
And people can then, oh, okay, so you're getting this guys and these guys and you're getting the consumers and the mission here is very clear.You're solving a very clear problem.
But you're leveraging other people to do is not.You could say that some of these non profit organizations are your, are your competitors.
They go into neighborhoods and whatever.And whatever and try to educate some people and whatever.But that's a non scalable physical model without any particular impact.And it doesn't.You could, you could make that argument that some of those guys are your competitors.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker B
Yeah, I think we gotta move on payment.Sorry.
Christopher introduces Compliance Vine, a platform for automating compliance in regulated alcohol commerce. He explains the problem, the product, early customers, and the plan to expand beyond wine.
Speaker B
Thank you so much.
Speaker A
All right.Thank you, Katie.
Speaker C
Thank you.
Speaker A
Come, come to office hours.We'll chat more.
Speaker C
Okay.
Speaker A
All right, let me stop you from sharing.Christopher, can you please go next?
Speaker E
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B
Hello, Christopher.
Speaker E
Hello, Sid.How are you?
Speaker B
Well, joy of wine, my kind of thing.
Speaker E
Yeah, well, it was Joy of Wine.We've changed it to Compliance vine for a more accurate name here.So you should be seeing my screen now.
Speaker A
Yes, go ahead.
Speaker E
I'm Christopher Anderson, founder of Compliance Vine.Compliance isn't paperwork, it's the infrastructure of truth.
And compliance sucks.As interim CFO for Vivino's largest US shipper, I watch bookkeeper Tiffany Phelps drown in compliance paperwork.I built Compliance vine for people like her because compliance doesn't have to suck, it just has to be right.Every producer and reseller of regulated products has to get compliance right.For the consumer, ordering these products is easy, just like ordering anything else.
But for the regulated seller, first the transaction must be legal.Then the transaction must be reconciled and reported to regulators in every state every month.Today that gap is closed by hand and can easily add $170,000 or more in a year to a mid size operation.And one misfiling can mean audits, fines or loss of license.The solution is infrastructure that automates compliance, enforces the rules and handles the reporting.
One transaction, one compliance trail, one source of truth.The Compliance Find platform automates multi state compliance and taxes across the full transaction life cycle.Live sits at checkout and answers the question, is this legal?The desktop app captures every sale, every filing obligation and produces the audit ready report.It answers.
Can we prove and report what we did at Vivino's largest US shipper?We replaced 95% of their monthly compliance labor and saved them $160,000 in the first year.Fifteen months later, that system is still running.Tiffany's verdict was simple.It works.
The same infrastructure serves both the people who make the wine and the people who resell it.Compliance fine is complete.Five customers are now in production.Michael Schapp's Wine Works and Big Cork Vineyards are Bounty partners.Our integrations are live.
The product exists, the consumers are validating.The remaining job is to scale.Wine is our entry market, not our ceiling.We start with a narrow market where we have deep expertise, direct access and operating proof.Then we expand the same infrastructure into other regulated categories.
Turn that dial a bit more and There are over 600,000 resellers in the US alone.Turn that dial again and there are 25 million resellers globally.We monetize through three layers.First, SaaS subscriptions.Second, the API embeds that compliance directly into checkout.
Third, the data empowers benchmarks, insights and the AI sommelier.SAS acquires API scales and data creates the intelligence layer.Three net revenue streams built from the same underlying transaction.The economics are solid.We cross into positive earnings in Q3 of 2027.
We do not need to own the entire market.It requires a few thousand customers within a much larger addressable universe.We start with wineries.That proves the product and gives us the initial customer base.Once established in wine, we use the same playbook of direct outreach, trade shows and industry associations to expand to other regulated markets.
Today the market is fragmented among point solutions, the managed service incumbents and consultants.Compliance.Vine combines self service automation with checkout enforcement in a single platform.We are replacing manual processes with infrastructure with 15 years across the IRS, R&DC and total wine.I built this because I live the problem.
My co founder and CTO Mark Ross is a former VP of technology at Razorfish.With 20 years scaling enterprise SaaS, you probably use one of the products that he helped build.We're raising 750,000 to scale a solution that's already working.That gives us the distribution, 14 months of Runway and a clear path to breakeven.This started as a solution to a real operational problem.
Now we're scaling the infrastructure layer for regulated commerce from mandatory compliance to real time intelligence.I've lived the problem, we solved it.Customers are validating it and this investment scales IT.Compliance doesn't have to suck, it just has to be right.Thank you.
Sid critiques the pitch for not clearly identifying the buyer, the problem, and the platform's exact function. He advises narrowing the compliance use case, clarifying pricing, and reducing the number of memorable one-liners.
Speaker A
Thanks, Christopher.Seb, go ahead please.
Speaker B
So.
Let me start with, with this.You're a smooth presenter.That's a good thing.
Speaker E
I have a nice radio voice.Thank you, Sid.
Speaker B
Yeah, you do.You have very nice one liners that have stuck in in there, but you got too many of them.Let me explain why.Repeatability will stick.When you have too many one liners and said oh, that was good.And then you have something else, and then I've lost you.Right.You need to reduce those to.To something that would stick with people if you would, but.But.But they're really good.Clearly you've thought about this a thousand times.I. I can.I could give you that.
Now, let's go to the thing.
Until probably the eighth or ninth or seventh or eighth slide, I wasn't sure who your client is.
So that confusion.That.That.That who would buy.
Speaker A
Interesting,
Speaker B
right?So that confusion didn't let me truly appreciate what you're doing.I was.I was just trying to say, okay, who's the buyer?Is it the shipper?
Is it the.The winery?Is it the.Who's.Who's.Who's.The.Who's it.So I would.I would suggest that when you started by saying that here's.
Here's the compliance problem, and that wasn't you, you kind of slapped through it very, very quickly.You said, it takes 160,000 for who.Who is that?Is that the winery that has this problem?Is it the shipper?And then you said, I work for this company, that I wasn't sure what that company does.Is it a distributor?Is it a.So that confusion stayed with me kind of until I saw the slide that you said, okay, here's this, and here's this, and here's this, and.Right.
But by that time, I was.I was.I had lost some of your effectiveness, if you would.
So I would say the problems page.You need to be say, okay, here's this problem is for regulated industries that have to do with alcohol, tobacco, and whatever.Okay.Now you narrowed it.I didn't know that until you got to the end, because regulation is a drillion, you know, areas.
So.And we're penetrating in wine, and we have success.Boom.Right?So here's the compliance problem.The compliance problem is in distribution.Who used it?What?I still don't know.Is it the age of the user that is the compliance issue?
Is it the alcohol level that brings the compliance issue?Is it the storage level that brings a compliance issue?Again, I don't know.I'm just saying I
Speaker E
understand.
Speaker B
I don't know, because I don't know.My imagination is driving me not.You're not driving me.
Speaker E
The answer is yes to all of those.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker E
I just wanted to answer the question.However, I do understand what you are saying, Sid, about the buyer not being 100 clear.That is something payment and I have been very much working on to drill down and to try to make that from the narrowness of wine producers to the broadness of, you know, more regulated DTC vice industries, if you will.Trying to find a narrow way to say that has been a challenge and we're continuing to, to have that challenge.So we're
Speaker B
keep working
Speaker E
on it.
Speaker B
Yeah.Because the average Joe like me, we don't know the, the dynamics of who this is the winery, this is the distributor, this is the retailer.We have some imagination.
I don't know.Except I'll go to a wine store and get a bottle of wine.I don't know.And
Speaker E
that's kind of the point for you as a consumer.
It's very easy.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah.But, but
Speaker E
behind the scenes.No, it's not behind the scenes.It's a total nightmare.And.Correct.And trying to expose that without getting super deep into every detail of it
Speaker B
in a presentation.As a consumer, As a, as a consumer.At the risk of sounding a little.I don't give a, you know, I assume that it's there, it works.I don't care.Right.
The guy who cares is the one that the, the regulator companies are going to find.That's their problem.So this is not a consumer, if you would perspective.It's a, it's a, it's.It's a problem that, that resides on the back end of this thing.Okay.So,
Speaker E
yes,
Speaker B
here's.So as, as if you're pitching this to an investor, you need to educate the investor and say there are three pieces to this supply chain.
There's the grape guy who is a farmer.There is a.This guy who's.This is a.This guy.
And this is how the regulation problem flows through all these people.Today we are attacking this piece of the business because the pain is more articulate.Then we're going to grow into both directions.Right.So again, this is something that is the regulation of the tobacco and, and, you know, alcohol industry is not something that most investors, you know, read books and, you know, sleep on every night.
Speaker E
I presume most do not, other than those in the industry.
Speaker B
Yes.So that was my first comment.I'm not going to go over because I know Alex usually likes to go slide by slide and provides us.But generally it was a good slide series.
But I'll go someplace else.I'm not quite sure.When you say platform, what is it that you're doing?
Speaker E
Okay,
Speaker B
I don't understand it.Is it the transaction that you're doing?Is it the acidity of the, of the, of the wine?Is it the alcohol percentage versus the cubicle?
What is it that, that what what is that?What does this your.Is it a transactional platform that follows the money from an IRS and reporting perspective?Is it a mechanical production control system?I'm not sure.
Right.And if it's all of those, you got a problem.
Speaker E
No, it's not all of those.I'm not claiming to do everything now.
Speaker B
That's what I'm saying.Because your buyer changes, right?
Speaker E
Yes.
Speaker B
And then who is the buyer within this group?Is it the financial guy?Is it the risk guy?Is it the operating guy?Is it the size of the.If you go to a, I don't know, gallows wine and whatever.I'm sure they're doing this in, in a pretty nice way.They have all sorts of.
Oracle has modified it.SAP has modules that designs that they've paid lots of money to to solve this problem.Now if I'm, if I, If I spend 2, 3, 4 million dollars, if I sell, if I'm a mid market player, I, I have a $50 million revenue, would I trust and I question this for you, this is a pricing issue.Would I trust my regulation and my all.And I'm, I'm spending $156,000.You told me that on this problem.Would I then spend $6,000 and think that that's a good idea?Would I put myself at risk because the consequences are pretty damn high.So with a $99 to a $6,000 solution, would I buy that to solve a million dollar, half a million dollar fine problem?Likely not.
Speaker E
Okay,
Speaker B
okay.
Speaker E
I understand what you're saying.From a hesitation standpoint, some of that is proof in the market and you have to be around long enough to prove that what you're doing has established and some of that just takes time.Can only do so many things with time.
But yeah, I will continue.I have heard what you said about the very much about not knowing who the mark buyer is.That being unclear and the platform being unclear.So we will continue to refine those.Perfect as.
Yeah.So I do appreciate that feedback very clearly Sid, thank you.
Speaker B
But you're a very good presenter.Good job, man.
Speaker E
Yeah, I do have the radio voice.It helps
Speaker B
you do.It's not the radio voice.You have the, the gift of the gap.But I would eliminate the number of onliners.They're all pretty good.So you have to choose though.So my
Speaker E
favorite one is compliance sucks and it doesn't have to.So I'll keep that one and reduce some of the other
Speaker B
ones.But, but you got some other good things.But my point is you want to you want to have something that stays with people.When you have too many things, I don't remember all of them, so I lose all.
Speaker E
Okay, understood.Appreciate that.
Alex and Sid dig into the company's market scope, buyer roles, and competitive landscape. They challenge the pricing model, revenue projections, and whether the company is really targeting wineries, distributors, or a broader regulated-commerce platform.
Speaker D
Christopher.That was a great presentation.I agree with you with seed.You nail it.I mean the story.You're a natural storyteller.So
Speaker A
Alex, there's something going on with your mic.You sound like you're in a tunnel.
Speaker D
Can you hear me now?
Speaker A
Yeah, we can hear you just.You sound like you're talking from inside a tunnel.
Speaker D
Okay, give me one second.
Speaker A
That got better.
Speaker D
Can you hear me now?
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker D
Okay, so I think my mic has a.So it was a great presentation.
Speaker B
By the way.Alex, those are pretty nice glasses you have on.They're very classy.
Speaker D
I
Speaker E
tried to copy them.Yeah,
Speaker D
So.So from last one of you spoke significantly improved.I mean your presentation, your slides, your positioning.Congratulations on that part.Do you mind to show your.
Your screen and your presentation real quick?
I'm just SID already provided most of the feedback.Just want to give you like a few extra on my end.Can you go to your problem slide?So when I was not closed, let's say closed by hand every month, burning $170,000 per year, what does that mean?
Speaker E
It means that the process for reconciling from what happens at checkout to the reporting is simply a very manual process that takes time and energy and money to do.
Speaker D
I see.God, I was not clear like I thought it was.Okay, $170,000 from what is missing like is that we are talking about per customer, per company.It was not the
Speaker E
average per a mid size operation based upon our experience and not a ton of these numbers are readily available.But based upon our experience,
Speaker D
maybe it's
Speaker E
personnel, largely it's personnel that people are paying to do this on a manual basis.They're either using internal or outsourced to consultants and some combination of their software that they're using.
Obviously a
Speaker D
little bit simplified that sentence.Some, some the way that anyone.Without you explaining what, what does that mean?You're talking about average mid size, I don't know, winery or something like that.
Making much more clear where you were talking because I was figuring out, I was trying to figure out like we were talking about who.And then you're talking about every month, just put it annual, annual on average compounds mid size losing, I don't know, $1.7 million to $2 million, something like that.Because if you want to go with every month, that means if I calculate that to 12 months, we are talking about almost $2 million.
Speaker E
That's actually an annual number.The 170 is an annual number.
Speaker B
It says per year.
Speaker D
Oh, per year.Oh, close by hand every month.I see.Anyway, it was a little bit with the poor.Like it was lucky.Like a poet.It was a hard for me to kind of figure out within that 10, 20 seconds that you were explaining about your problem.Now if you go to your market opportunity, you are mentioning and talking about that, okay, we are going to expand to other categories.This is only for wineries and I would like, I would suggest that you emphasize two, three of those categories.
This is just emphasize
Speaker E
the categories in here instead of just saying regulated industries.Actually name the categories
Speaker D
including, I don't know, smoking.I don't like, like adult content, whatever.Is that right?So all I'm trying to say and because to me, if investors giving you the money, not because you want to be just a company in one industry, they will give them money to your future because they believe you that if you can dominate this space, then you can go to other kind of regulated industries which much, which, which.Which is much bigger than miners.
I would say.
Speaker E
Yes,
Speaker D
your market become much bigger.Emphasize that even though you are clearly mentioned that, okay, we're going to start from this because we have expertise.But emphasize for investors so they believe you.
So they can believe you that no, Christopher really is serious.He wants to go to those industries when he has more money.So that is my suggestion because that is significant changes the projection of the.Whatever projection that you have or the, the.The perception of investors when they want to give you money that they're giving them money to, to solve the problem for wineries or.No, they're giving you the money because they are.They believe in the big vision and picture that you can dominate many different regulated industries.Right.So how much can you go to financial projection, Christopher?
Okay, how much is your, Your revenue is $53,000 this month, this year.
Speaker E
That's a projected annual revenue at the end of the year.Yeah,
Speaker D
right.
Speaker E
Right now we have just crossed in.We are just crossed into the revenue state.We're you know, with the 150, $180.Excuse me, for a subscription and have a handful of subscribers.Well, by this month we'll be converting to.
Speaker D
I don't know.I feel that when you are starting putting like red color 203, $32,000 and then 121.Even though it's a bit.A bit.But I would suggest to kind of like put one number cash flow positive.So we have in break even in 2027 that you already have.
I feel, I don't, don't put red colors.I feel it's negative.I don't know, maybe it's, it's me, but I feel that like investors, like some, sometimes they see what
Speaker B
it's, it's, it's, it's not an issue, Alex.It's not an issue.
It actually is.As opposed to forcing me to figure out what the loss is.I know.See, here's the thing.He's asking for 750 just, just from an investor.This is for the broader audience.
Speaker A
Listen to what
Speaker E
I'm listening.
Speaker A
We
Speaker E
had this conversation earlier.Payment.Yes.
Speaker B
Okay.So here's what I do.I add the 232 to 121.That's $350,000 negative.
So my first question is, why do you need 750?
Speaker A
There you go.
Speaker D
That was my next question.
Speaker B
Okay.Now I do like to see this because I'm doing it in my mind anyway.At some point in the, in the conversation, even if I like it or I will move forward, I'm gonna have that question.So you better have an answer.
Speaker D
Yeah.
Speaker B
Does that make sense?
Speaker E
Yes,
Speaker D
that was a question for you.
Speaker E
Oh, yes, that, that does make sense.And what I tried to do is show here.Yes, we have.
Because some of this is accounting in terms of the time of the year, as all of you are aware is because when you're just in an ARR, you don't actually receive the funds in until the, you know, so you have an ARR that's slightly higher than your actual ebitda.So some of that is that.But the other parts are it simply takes energy and time and people to do.
Speaker B
No, no, the question is not, the question is not ARR.The question is not accounting and this or that or yes, it takes.Nobody is saying why don't you have.
Speaker E
Oh, okay, I thought that was the
Speaker B
question.
Speaker E
Like
Speaker B
why
Speaker E
don't I, why don't I have positive earnings right away?
Speaker B
No, no, that's not my question.Question.This is.That's why you're asking for money, because you didn't go through Burns and that's not the question at all.
I'm saying you're showing it negative of $350,000 over the next two years.You're asking for $750,000.There's a $400,000 difference.Where is that money and why are you not showing it?If you're getting the money, you're putting it into marketing.You should, it should Be reflected.If it's so it's how come that other one.I'm not giving you money to put it in the bank account so you feel good.
Speaker E
Right?Of course.
No, it's being spent.
Speaker B
Okay.So.Yes, so that number should.So, so when you say ebitda, it should reflect that number.
Speaker D
That's why I said don't put it.Because people like, see that are investors, they're looking to these numbers and they, they file.No,
Speaker B
no, no.That's okay if.No, no.The finding a hole.If I see consistency, I like it.It's when you push me to use my brain to catch you at things.That's where I don't like it.
Speaker A
So let me ask you a question.Given, given this particular chart, just for the benefit of everybody in the room.When you see a revenue go from relatively zero to a million dollars, what, what do you think in that time period?
Speaker B
I, I question it particularly.You just, you're going to tell me that this is about $6,000 a month.
Okay.That, that was your pricing per month per year, Right?
Speaker E
That was monthly pricing was between 99 and 6 and 7,000amonth.Yeah.For the.
Speaker B
Okay, so Your maximum is 6,000.So you're going to have about 10 times 6, 6, 60, $70,000, $80,000.
Speaker E
75,000 is our annual.Okay.
Speaker B
Yeah.So if you, if you multiply 120 by 75,000, how much is it?
Speaker E
That's 7.About 8 million off the top of my head.
Speaker B
Okay, so what's the gap there?
Speaker E
Well, not everybody's been paying the max amount.Most
Speaker B
people will not be
Speaker E
paying the max amount.
Speaker B
They'll be paying
Speaker E
significantly less.And our ACV is, is much, much, much lower than that.Our average customer value is much higher than that.
Speaker B
Okay, so, so I don't want to get into that because this is a presentation.But, but you have a problem.
A hole in your pricing versus what you offer.And when I multiply that out, it's, you know, if you tell me 60,000 is my price, who's the customer?What's the average?If you're trying to sell to a customer that buys A$99 a month, that requires.I'm gonna.
Speaker E
Customers.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, give me two minutes.Because this is an important thing that most entrepreneurs don't realize that it, it's an issue.How are you going to sell that guy?You're going to have a commission.
You're going to have a salesperson.This guy who's selling 99amonth thing to some, which is not the Same person that buys the $6,000 or $60,000 a year thing.This guy has to be convinced.Your salesperson has to get on the call, do this thing and, and how much commission are you going to pay him?Because in a year he's going to make 1200 bucks revenue.
So there's a commission problem for the sales guy.This doesn't work.And then the audience or the con or the end user of that, that's a small business that buys a $99 thing versus the one that is 60.So my point is the pricing range that you have, the value proposition that you have and the audience that you're, you're defining, there is no consistency in it in terms.It's going to be a hassle for you from a sales and go to market perspective to reach the guy that he is happy to pay $99 to solve.
Speaker E
Yes, I understand what you're saying Sid.I'm not disputing that.It takes just, it takes just as much effort if not more to sell the guy who's, who wants to buy
Speaker B
the
Speaker E
99.One
Speaker B
point is.Yeah, the point is pick your battle.What your numbers and your pitch shows is that you haven't picked your battle.You're experimenting.
You want to see which one would stick.Can I sell the 991 easier, faster, cheaper.That's what it shows.Okay.So
Speaker E
and I would say probably that's true.Yes, we're figuring this out.Yes, yes, you have assessed it.Very, very
Speaker B
so so my point is Chris, most people think that the investors and I'm not unique and they're, some of them are a lot better than me and their numbers of what they've done is, is much better.
There is, we see, I, I, I don't see that many now but I used, I've probably seen 20, 30,000 deals literally.Okay.At one point I was the president of a large organization.I had a venture capital firm.I see lots of, lots of deals.
So my mind is trained to go to the places where I see okay, this, this is not going to work.This is, this is and where, where I go there it shows that you haven't figured it out.You don't and when you don't say it then I'll say you don't have a focus workers.But if you say it, you say hey, we either because 120 now your average.The sales model for selling a 99amonth subscription and the sales model for a 75 thousand dollar software is entirely different.
Your organization structure, your deal structure, your marketing Everything is different.Different.Everything is different.So which one, what team, what structure, what execution format are you building this for?Becomes.
And I don't want to pay you to decide, I want you to have decided based on some fact and logic.You follow the reason I'm going to say it's an interesting idea.Come back to me in three months.Keep me posted.
Speaker E
Okay, I understand what you're saying.You're trying to, you want people to have.You're saying like from your perspective, you're saying this company's got a lot of pieces in the place, but they still haven't figured enough of it out.
Speaker B
Yep.
Speaker E
Okay.
Speaker D
So.So Chris, I mean to add to what Sid mentioned about the business model and your financial projection, maybe you say no, guys, I'm making $53,000 by end of this year.And I already have how many customers?
Speaker E
Five in production right now.
Speaker D
Five customers and I give them 200 discount or something crazy.Oh, same customers that are happy using us next year.The first year we give them the scam, but second year they don't have the scale.That's what automatically the same existing customers that I have this year, I'm gonna make, I don't know, $400,000 thousand dollars next year.And this is the pipeline that I have.I have $2 million in my pipeline from these 25 large organizations that we already in conversation for the last few months.
See, when you build this story on your, your business model or your traction slide before showing me your, your financial projection, if you go from 53k to 1 million, I can digest that.I said, okay, he already has a plan, he already has a active pipeline.He already have shown me all these logos that he has been in conversation with.And it is more possible for someone like me to accept this fact that you can go from 0 to 1 million in 12 months.But if you don't share those information, if you don't have that pipeline, you don't have those, those discounts already in place.
That means you have to close 10 miners each month starting 2027.And I think having $700,000 is gonna, is not gonna be enough for you to close 10, 10 customers because you're gonna have one full time probably business development guy in your company, someone's and you have to pay that person and you have commissions and stuff like that.I don't think in the beginning you can close 10 each month.Like 10 is a lot.I mean typically enterprise sales is three to six months on average.
And three to six months, you have to build relationship with them in order to create a pipeline to close 10 each as a sequence in 2027.Again I feel that if you build up that story, if you have those numbers that might make sense or you might say that my price is going to change and we have done pilot and with lower price we're going to increase the pricing next year and this is going to be our pricing for next year anyway.So that I, I feel that you need you can just more on your financial projection and business model.And you know, the way that you have it right now I feel is not convincing at least from for 2026.I know the facts.But 2027 might be challenging to to convince investors.With 700k you can get to 1 million because when you get over 1 million then you can go to series A or sit round with the kind of economy that we are facing right now.
Now go to financial to competitive landscape.
So you compare yourself with all the kind of winers, right?Like all other platforms that are serving the winers and for wine industry, am I right?
Speaker E
Specifically in compliance.These are other, other compliance providers in I
Speaker D
don't know but
Speaker E
alcohol
Speaker D
definitely you can talk to seed or payment or other people in your own network.But I feel that maybe your competitive landscape should talk about your platform.Not only wineries.Is there any platform that regulating all these restricted or you know, industries like a smoke like wine.
Speaker E
Stovo Ship Comp compliant is the most direct competitor that does on other in other verticals as well as Bev alcohol.
Speaker D
I would say if that is the case, why don't compare yourself to them because you explain to investors that this is my entry market but it's not going to be the end market.So my question is if you are trying to adopt this, if you told me, if you told investors emphasize that oh this is a start.I'm gonna go to these four or five categories in five years.So then your competition should talk about the overall kind of view that okay, you know what this, these are three, four other competitors in this market that are covering all regulated industries.
Because then you're supporting your statement about kind of like the future of the company.
Speaker E
Okay, question there, Alex.Just question.Because I want to understand versus Sid's question, you know, point about, you know, how you're going to make money now versus the future.Just a question there.
So I get what you're saying about not being too wine focused on the competitive thing and just focus on the more broadly.But should I put anything about those that are on in our initial market like vinoch as an example because they're a startup or just ignore them because they're, they're just in the wine space.
Speaker D
Again, there are different app words like I don't know which one is wrong or maybe there are multiple answers to your question.But I would say if I was, if it was me, my competitive landscape, it was about the platform, the future of the kind of the industry, not wineries.I didn't want to put myself in shoes of compete with other companies that are only focusing on winers.Because again, if you claimed that you're gonna go, there are two options.If you don't want to claim and you want to stay in winery, it's fine.This is right.But if you, in your competitive landscape, if you, you're part of your market opportunity problem solution, you are emphasizing that you're going to go and expand to other regulated industries, then this is not your competitive landscape.This is your today competitive landscape.Today versus
Speaker E
the future.Okay, understood.And focus on the future.Okay.
Speaker D
Because competitive landscape means over the next few years who's going to just compete with you and your class goes much, you know, is a different kind of like I would say level of competition when you say, okay, this is us and these are three, four other platforms that are having compliance for regulators.
Speaker B
Chris, let me, I, I know we got, let me ask a very good, very quick question from, from here.This vino check.How many, how.What's their pricing and do they solve the same problem that you are for this industry?
Speaker E
Yes.Their pricing is 199amonth for producers up to $5 million in revenue.And they are most copycat type company.But they do not do everything we do.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker E
Yeah,
Speaker B
they're our
Speaker E
most direct competitor though.If a winery was looking at whom I'm going to buy, they're going to look between us Finocheck and ship competitor compliant for a software solution.
Speaker B
Okay, so, so, so I, I defer from Alex because in order for you to get entry points, this is where you're going and you have to compete with this.And now I understand why you have a 99 price because you want to beat the 198.The, the 199 of these guys.
Speaker E
Yes.
Speaker B
Okay, so the question,
Speaker E
our starting price.But that is not our, that's not our, that's not
Speaker B
our,
Speaker E
that's not our sweet
Speaker B
from a 99 or 1200 dollars to 75,000.It's too big of a gap that we've, we've covered that.But these are your competitors.That's the guy that today you're going to have to beat, right?
Speaker E
Yes.
Speaker B
Okay.Yes.And you're saying I have better features and functions.
Speaker E
Yes, features, functions, capabilities and price.
Speaker B
Okay, and, and how about the other one?
Speaker E
The Silver Ship compliant.They are the large incumbent in the industry.
They have you know, the 20 year head start.But yes, we're cheaper, faster, better and a different business model.They're very much a manage services style where we're just a self serve, you know, software style.And then bevlogic is a managed services platform.Envinoshipper is a different business model.
They use an aggregate business license that is proved illegal in Virginia and is having to change their business model.But they do serve over 3,000 small wineries.
Speaker B
Doing this regulation.
Speaker E
Doing this.Yeah.Doing just.
Speaker B
And how much do they charge you?
Speaker E
They charge a percent of sales.It's 10% of the per transaction typically.
Speaker B
My suggestion to you, I was going to actually go there but I did.
My suggestion is you change the model that would scale from big to small as a percentage of the transaction that goes through you.
Speaker E
We have chosen not to do that Sid, because the industry kind of hates vinocheck and hates that our vino shipper and that they charge a percent of sales.They want that.That is them in response from
Speaker B
because they charge,
Speaker E
because they charge a percent of sales they want a flat fee.
Speaker B
But
Speaker E
that's feedback from the industry.So we chose that.
Speaker B
But, but, but I would say that this is your competitor said until you get bigger and I don't think you're going to get bigger until your 3,4 million dollar mark which is a few years.So this is what I'm concerned about in terms of they're going to get your, they're going to eat your lunch and, and this
Speaker E
is why I'm asking the question between you, your perspective and Alex's perspective because
Speaker B
my perspective is this is our, this is our perspective.Now again the problem that you have is you're trying to service the 5 million dollar and sub 5 million and 50 million and, and
Speaker E
50 million to 5 million is, is our sweet spot.Those that size company, the giant ones we are, we are know that we they don't quite have enough for what they need.The gallows of the world.
Speaker B
Yeah.So so, so, so so again I would say that I, I if you say my competitor is Oracle I my because that's who, that's if you get bigger that that would be your, your competitor then I look at you differently.There's a different set of challenges and so forth.This is a different Set of challenges and so forth.
And this is, in my opinion, this is your real competitor today.This is who you have to beat to get to those numbers.
Speaker E
Yes.And you notice I do put consultants in it.That is really what we're competing against.If you want to tell me what our number one competitor is.Microsoft Excel and a consultant.
Speaker B
So
Speaker A
is
Speaker B
it possible to use them as a channel?Would be the question that I would.
Speaker E
Yes,
Speaker B
we do.
Emmanuel pitches SponsoredIL, a sponsorship marketplace for combat sports athletes and brands. He outlines the product flow, market opportunity, revenue streams, team, and fundraising plan.
Speaker B
Let's move on.
Speaker E
Yes, very much
Speaker A
so.We got, we got 40 minutes and two more startups.
Good job, Chris.
Speaker D
Thank you.
Speaker E
Thank
Speaker A
you.Let's, let's move forward.Let me have Emmanuel.Oh, you can fix your video.Go for it.
Speaker F
Yes.Problem solved.
Speaker A
Awesome.Go for it.
Speaker F
Great.Let me just share.
Can everyone see my screen?
Speaker A
Yes, go ahead please.
Speaker F
Okay, great.So, hi everyone.My name is Emmanuel and I'm the co founder and CEO of Sponsdale.
I spent more than 16 years in combat sport as an athlete and entrepreneur.Throughout my journey, I experienced firsthand how difficult it will be for combat sport athletes to access sponsorships opportunities.Despite the rapid growth of combat sports, sponsorship is still driven by personal connections, referrals and manual outreach.And we believe it should be better.And that's why we created SponsoredIL.
The problem we are solving is that there is no clear path in sponsorships, leaving athletes unsure of where to begin.Most of them don't even know where to find the right opportunities or how to approach them efficiently.Brands on the other side don't have a simple way to identify or to evaluate assets for potential collaborations.This creates friction on both sides and leave sponsorship opportunities wasted.Our solution is very simple.
Sponsor is a digital sponsorship platform dedicated for combat sport.It's available on web and mobile.We bring athletes and brands together in a structured environment where sponsorship opportunities can happen.And this is how it works in just four simple steps.Athletes can first create a profile and directly find sponsorship opportunities in the platform without them sending or wasting their time sending a lot of mails to companies not knowing if they are sponsoring or not.
Secondly, they can become sponsorship ready by getting professional education and guidance to the platform.Thirdly, they can get matched thanks to our AI with the ideal sponsor based on sports audience value and sponsorship goals.And lastly, they can manage everything into one platform from finding the first sponsor to getting to a sponsorship agreement.The marketing we're entering is still large and still expanding.And as a lot of combat sport athletes are growing within the Olympic ecosystem, we even see a larger long term opportunity ahead.
Our goal is to create a sponsorships infrastructure that Goes with the sports and takes a meaningful share of that market.Over the next five to seven years we have two revenue streams at least based premium memberships.While we earn a success fee on every sponsorship agreement secured.This gives us stable revenue and also additional growth.While sponsorship activities continues to grow to evolve in our platform, our financial model is built to scale with the markets.
As we grow, our athletes and brands based revenue increases on both sides of the platforms While our cost rates grow on a lower rate.We are intentionally conservative about our projections.Our 7 million revenue by 2021 is not our ceiling.This just represents an achievable scenario based on our current assumptions.While we will grow on our network interplatform, we will also unlock additional revenue and our revenue will our revenue number will get much higher.
So our go to market strategy will start to within the combat spot community we will acquire athletes to coaches, gyms, events and digital community and community outreach which we already did to get to get to 1880 registered athletes into the platforms.Then scaling to digital marketing, influencer and strategic partnerships.The main goal here is to create a global adhesive network that will attract brands to the platform.Well au compete advantages.Most sponsorship platform just stopped stops at introducing the athletes to brands.
Sponsdeal is built around the full sponsorship journey by preparing the athletes, finding the right opportunities and managing relationships.By focusing specifically on combat sport, we can build around and need of a market that most sports platforms often overlook.This gives us clear focus and also room to become a category of our own.Well, this is the team behind Sponsville.Me myself as CEO with over more than 16 years experience in combat sports competed at the highest level and also making it to the Olympic selection for 2020.
For 2020 while also created three created and skilled three sport groups in Brussels.Getting into 500 active members here in Brussels over a spam year of three years.I have a background education background so a master in sports management and law.My co founder Romario has expertise in marketing, communication and finance while working as the leading number one bank in Europe BNP 40s while Christina had also expertise in digital growth and strategy.We are raising 1 million specifically the music will be handled into marketing, marketing and sale and product development and also operations to get to 250 paying members by month 60 which is basically our one way to make 200 to make sorry 24k monthly revenue while also adding that we got already 80 registered moments into the platform.
From those 80 athletes there are national champions, European champions, world champions and also Olympic champions.Well this proves that There's a huge demands available and people also we think that we launch it as soon as possible.While also the amount will give us the opportunities to partner with big organizations, sport organizations to specifically acquire new athletes and to maximize our growth.Thank you for listening and I'm available for any questions.
Sid questions the competitive set, brand-side demand, and the platform's differentiation. He suggests the business may need stronger brand relationships and a clearer path to scale before athletes will flock to it.
Speaker A
Thanks.
Go ahead please.
Speaker B
Which one of those competitors are focused only on combat sports or are there any
Speaker F
at the moment not.So I'm the only one.There are, I think there is an American platform, it's more and management platform not only talking sponsorships based and it's only focused on one sport so mma.So at the moment we are the only one.
Speaker B
Okay, which one is the biggest from a revenue perspective?
Speaker F
Well for the revenue then we need to talk in this globally.So the ones platform are Dominic, dominating the market right now is open sponsorships.
Speaker B
So it's people talking to each other that's open, that's what you mean?Or is there a company called Open Sponsorship?
Speaker F
No, it's a company called Open Sponsorships.Basically they introduce athletes at this, create a profile and they can introduce them to brands for.Yeah.
Speaker B
Okay, and how big is it?
Speaker F
Well it's the leading company at the moment.So.
Speaker B
No, I could be leading, I could be leading in, you know, in a kindergarten class.That doesn't mean that I'm big, it just means that I'm leading.So is it a 10 million dollar business is 100 million dollar business.Does it have have tens of thousands of people?
If you wanted to say big what, what would be the.
Speaker F
Well I guess between 10, 10 million to 50 million.
Speaker B
Okay, all right, I got you.And your advantage is what
Speaker F
we are only specific specific on combat sports.So not.Yeah,
Speaker B
gotcha, gotcha.I got you.So I, I, I got it.The, the presentation was well designed, you did a good job.Obviously you built credibility in terms of who you are and all that sort of stuff.This is a two way eBay like so you gotta have this one and that one the 80 come.But if they don't get the people to, to come in on the brand side very quickly, they're gonna fizzle and go away.So you gotta have some brands to come in first to attract people.You know if you had, I mean I saw the logo of, of different people but I don't think you have any of them, do you?
Speaker F
No.
Speaker B
Okay.So I would say your first objective.Athletes want sponsors, they want money.
Brands are picky on who they have and so they said so if you have some characters thinking and say okay, we're only and have some relationships with the brands.It's easier to get the athletes.That's my opinion.I think there's some interesting plays here because the athletes are very competitive to, to also be a marketing representative for them.Meaning the better their marketing position in the market, the, the more they make.
Let me explain.The fact that I just won this game doesn't make me sexy for Red Bull, but the fact that I have 10 million people following me does.
Right?Like the guy in the, in the soccer games, the, the goalie for I think was Cape.Something that, that got overnight 5 million viewers.So now that guy, that guy, I, I like that guy is a good, good bet now.So I think you have opportunities to also create that.And you say, okay, we're going to charge you $150 but if your profile gets to this stage and this stage we're going to remove any fee that you would pay.So they are competing with themselves to get better and better and then the people on this side where the brands would like to come to them.So my thing is competing directly with the existing infrastructure would be hard.And you're not competing, you're not saying, okay, this is a 10 billion dollar market.Most of it is offline, most of it is not online.
Most of it is relationships with the brands with, you know, all that sort of stuff.So, so those relationship buildings, although it seems like it is conventional, I don't know, CAA type things and, and others who do the big deals with LeBron James and, and whatever still are valuable.So getting the big deals is going to be difficult.Now I said all of that.But let me spend, let me forget about, let me, let me focus on one item for you.
The panel focuses on Emmanuel's projections, valuation, and the logic of raising $1 million. Sid explains investor math, dilution, and why the current cap and return profile may not work for professional investors.
Speaker B
Can you go to your projection slide?
Speaker F
Give me a moment.
Speaker B
Okay, so number one, your projection is reasonable, which is good.You know, some people say, oh, I'm gonna make $100 million.It's, it's okay.But if I go through the math of it and you're saying estimated cost 240, 460.Okay, so you are saying again the same thing, estimated cost 660 until 2080.
28.Right.So why are you raising 1 million dollar?
Speaker F
Well, basically to position ourselves also as a leading.
Speaker B
Correct.So you're spending it, you're spending.
Speaker F
Yeah, I'm spending.It's not.
Speaker B
Okay,
Speaker F
so, yeah,
Speaker B
so it's not survival.Estimated cost.This should, should equal to the investment account that you're the investment amount that you were looking for.Otherwise I'm saying where is the money going?Why do you need this much money.Okay, you're saying I'm positioning us, I'm marketing, I'm capturing.Originally, capturing each brand may cost me $50.Now over time, it may cost me $30.That.Those are arguments that goes into.But the math of this is not necessarily working.Now let me, let me give you another thing.This is.And payment.I think at some point, I don't know what kind of sessions you have for people to understand the math of raising money.
Do you, do you have anything?
Speaker A
Well, it depends on the particular topic, but we touch on it.But we don't dive too
Speaker D
deep.I think maybe Sid can host the next workshop.
Speaker A
Ah, there we go.
Speaker D
I
Speaker B
knew the minute I opened my.I knew I was getting myself into.Careful.
Okay, so, so here's, here's the thing.When you're looking for a, for a finance, for, for a financially savvy, meaning a professional investor to raise money, they follow certain mat.Okay, this mat.Now this mat, you can, you can take off this, this thing so I can see you
Speaker A
here.I'll stop it.
Speaker B
Stop sharing it.So you see, Emmanuel, and, and this is for everybody.If I'm giving you a million dollars, all right, I expect.Because this is very risky business.
Maybe not for you, but for me.And I would put, I have to put in.In about 20 to 25 different deals.Deals, that's proven math of how much.Then my return on my investment is given that 50% of anybody that's on this call is going to close.
It's a fact.Another 30% at best, you're going to be able to pay the same amount that you've made.Meaning if I give you a million at best, you exit in a.In an even.Then another 10%, 15% can give you 2 or 3x your money.
That means if I give you a million, you can give me back 2 million.Right?Now imagine I'm in 25 deals.Given the 50%, the math that I just gave you, I have to make that investment.Assuming that you're going to be worth that, my money is going to be ten times more in a span of five to seven years.
Okay, five to seven years.Otherwise the math doesn't work.Okay, so if I give you a million, I need to be able to see my exit at the end is 10 million.Now if your valuation is $8 million, I think that's what, that's what it was.Right?
So you're giving me your give and that's a safe.So if that's the cap, maybe I'm making what, 8% of, of your company?Something 7% or some, some number like that.So.And in order for you to get to the next stages, you're going to have dilution or whatever, you're going to raise more money because I can see your math, the cost doesn't.
You're going to need more money and you're going to get it.So at the end, if I am extremely lucky, I may have 2 or 3% of your company.Okay.So my 2 or 3% should be worth 10 million.Are you with me, Emmanuel?
Speaker F
Yeah.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker F
Yeah.
Speaker B
Okay.So If I take 2% of a company that should be worth 10 million, what should the company be worth?
If it was a, if it was, if it was a hundred million, 10% would be 10 million.2% would be 2 million.So you are telling me with the valuation that you're proposing that you have to be a 3,400 million dollar company before I make my money back.The expectations ain't gonna work.The mat is broken.
So I'm saying your revenue target is reasonable, your valuation is unreasonable.The amount of money you're raising at this level is unreasonable.
Right.The mat of a deal doesn't work.
Does that make any sense to you?
Speaker F
Yes.Yes.Kind of.Yeah.Yeah.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker F
Just taking notes.
Speaker B
So just, just like anything else that, you know, you add and multiply this stuff in sales, you say, if I get so many people at the top and so many go on the bottom, so many.Exactly.Like how many hours as an athlete you practice and you say if I do this thing 17, 000 times, if I, if I do this regimen, it's math.There is a procedure, there is a process, there is a way of.There is a science to building a bridge.There's a science in investing and getting returns.It's not just random because I like you.Now, you could get that money at that valuation from someone who's not a professional investor.
Let me explain why someone who is in the business of investing, that's how they make their money and livelihood through that investment and the conversion and.Okay, but someone who's a dentist, who is a real estate guy who likes this.He doesn't.He's not valuation sensitive.They don't.
He loves to be close to athletes and this early stage and okay, that guy is not valuation sensitive.He doesn't care.He's making his money in real estate deals or having a dog beat a doctor or whatever the hell he is, or she is.So.But the value that they add to your deal is significantly Less they may think or they're pretty good real estate guys.
That doesn't make them an understandable of how this dynamics of what you're doing.But someone who's a professional Investor has made 50 different investments in different areas that has touches consumers or whatever their their value added significantly more.So you're giving up valuation to gain credibility and an experience to be on your side.But if you go the other side in terms of the.So it is like any other.
If you would skill any other thing just like you.You engineer a design a bridge.You have to design a funding mechanism.
Okay.
Alex recommends revising the financial model, expanding into more sports categories, and adding an exit strategy slide. He suggests researching comparable acquisitions to make the long-term opportunity more credible.
Speaker F
Okay.
Speaker D
So Emana, that was an amazing presentation.I really like your.Your.Your.Your.Your project because we spoke few times in the past.Most of my comments is about your financial projection.The.The I completely agree with your financial projection is not right.And I have different perspective about your financial projection.If you put $7 million by end of 2031, no VCs are going to give you money.So you might to C's point you might be right on that.But again it's a very small money.So your network of investors will limit to only macro VCs or angel investors, not angel groups, not family offices, not VCS or are gonna just put money in the compound that in five years is going to get to $7 million.ARR.
So that is again for you to full of thoughts.I think if you.I'll.Maybe I missed that part.But if you are only focusing on.On the one category of a sport and that is 7 million.Maybe in your financial projection you can emphasize that.That you know in.In 202030 or 2029, we're going to open new categories for new sports.Again, I feel that $7 million is a very small number for VCs or you know, family offices or angel groups to get involved in your business or any cvc.
But I see a great potential if you build this company a corporate venture on we call them CVCs to.To buy your compound to buy out your business entire business.Again that is your decision.What do you want to do?But I feel that I'm not.
I'm not.I'm not telling you to fake up the numbers but maybe you have to change the business model to charge more or find other ways to make money to bomb at least that number to 40, $50 million by end of 31.Because you are telling me in five years you're going to make $7 million.As Sid mentioned, the dynamic and.And the kind of like the.The economic of the deal doesn't make sense for any investor, any savvy investors to get involved in your business and they might go to silent mode and they don't respond to you or they might say oh your market is this small and you have a very low chance to get money from investors at least in US as far as I know with seven $7 million ARR.Because even when you say $7 million then they're going to divide your number to two or three so that they go.
Then they never accept your money.Say oh 7 million by end of 23.Let me divide by two.
So that means probably is going to make $3 million by in five years.And and and for you to know now seed companies need to have over a million dollar in revenue.Many cases cases Series A companies are expecting to have over two and a half to $5 million revenue to go to the next round.So that means your, your entire lifetime of your company revenue is not even enough to get into series A.Right.
And that is what I see.So most likely you should probably think more about your business model.I love about the project and I would suggest your your type of project, your not IPO type of company.Add exit strategy slide.Put some of the potential buyers that in four or five years you are confident based on the previous deals that they have closed and purchased or acquired those businesses.
You can see when you build this company you will exit to the, to those companies that could be media company, that could be NFL that could be you know, you know that could be any kind of like like a potential, that could be Red Bull, that could be any compound.I want to just acquire your platform because of the user base and and engagement that you brought to that to the platform.So I would say that like definitely for the type of project that you have exit a strategy slot is needed before you end.After you ask add exit strategy.
Speaker F
Okay
Speaker D
and, and try to research in the market to see which large corporates or companies or organizations purchase similar type of businesses but in different categories in the past with their pricing.Also find their price.Okay.This company as an example sold to I don't like like this organization for $55 million or this is $200 million.You give them confidence that you know this is, this is already happening the market many times.
The session wraps up Emmanuel's segment and transitions to the final founder. The host notes time constraints and prepares the audience for the next presentation.
Speaker F
Okay got it.Thank you for Shar
Speaker D
Ran than that.I mean I think you did a great job on present.It's very clean and clear what you're trying to to achieve.
Speaker F
Thank you.
Speaker A
Very good.We have one more present.David, thank you so much for being patient.
Speaker D
And before David, you start, unfortunately, I have to leave on 11:50.
You and I spoke long yesterday?Yes, I
Speaker G
reflected what we talked about yesterday.Yesterday.
Speaker D
Right.So I'm.But I'm gonna stay for five, six minutes.But I have to live to my next call, unfortunately, it's an unexpected call.
Speaker G
Okay, well, you'll
Speaker D
see.
Speaker G
You'll see the presentation part of it anyway.Can everybody see my share?
Speaker A
No.Here
Speaker G
comes.
Okay.Should I go to Alex?No page numbers.I'll fix it, don't worry.Thank
Speaker D
you.Thanks.All
David presents Super Aging News, a media company focused on actionable longevity content for older adults. He explains the curated content model, audience definition, monetization through subscriptions and sponsorships, and early traction.
Speaker G
right, so.Hi, everybody.My name is David Crab and I'm the co founder and CEO of Super aging news media company that makes longevity more actionable for 90 million consumers who are pursuing healthy aging.And I'll show you how we get there.We're talking English language consumers.We may expand into multiple languages later.40 plus.
They want to know how to live a healthier, longer lifestyle.And that answer is all over the place.There's all.There's websites, there's newsletters, there's videos, there's YouTube channels, there's fitness trainers, there's diet, there's the New York Times, there's health newsletters, there's books.It's not that the information isn't there, it's that it's fragmented across multiple channels.
So our solution is to curate it.I want to underline that word curated, because we're not aggregating every single shred of information that exists.We're curating the essential topics about healthy aging.And our motto is getting older without getting old.Nutrition, fitness, brain health, money, unretirement, which is red hot right now.
People not retiring on schedule at 65, like the old model age tech, huge category, latest research.There's always some new discovery coming out of the labs.Independent living and inspiration.Inspiration, by the way, is big.It's not a soft topic.Research shows that optimists live longer and there's a ton of content about that.So we curate it, we compile it, we bring it to one place, and it's always sourced back to experts.We are, as you will see when I get to the team, we are career branding, advertising, marketing and media people.We're not clinicians.We.
We don't originate the.The information.We always trace it back to experts, bring it to one place, and then translate it into everyday action in a practical way that our audience can apply so as to put this into practice.We do this through three platforms.In the digital space, we have a website, superagingnews.com.
we have a newsletter, a free newsletter on Mailchimp that goes out every Monday, Wednesday and Saturday.And we have just launched at the beginning of June a free slash paid subscription product on substack.We have a lot of traction on these.They're already well developed.I'll show you that in a moment.So we bring the information to our digital platforms and our audience can easily see what's important, what's new and how they can apply it in their daily life.The market opportunity we started with again defining it as English language and in the fine print you'll see North America, uk, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand.We have sold a Spanish language version of our, of our book.So maybe we can expand into other markets but right now we're keeping it English.That's 250 million adults, 40 plus.
But then we said that's not fair because a lot of them are not actively pursuing this information.A lot of them aren't, don't want to be super agers.They're passive, they're not, they're spending money but they're not going after the information.And we developed a model with the help of AI to identify 90 million what we call engaged users who are going after this information.And we're assigning a value to each user of $100 between products that they directly buy, I.e.
subscriptions, apps, whatever and how they can be monetized to advertisers.So it's a blended number of 100 bucks per and we're saying if we had 1% of penetration of that market it we'd be looking at 900,000 users with a value of $90 million.So that's how we built our, our model out business model.Two products, B2B and B2C.On the B2C side we have our lead product, the super aging Playbook.
It's a subscription model just launched, it goes out every weekday with direct actionable tips, little bite sized pieces of information that you can do right now, right where you live.To make longevity a daily habit down the road we will add affinity partnerships and other revenue producing deals to the consumer.But essentially our consumer product is paid subs to the newsletter, our B2B side content, sponsorship and display advertising to this audience.We come out of extensive media backgrounds, decades of media experience in offline and digital.So we're very familiar with building media kits and sponsorship and ad sales.
But we had to concentrate on getting a big enough audience first.So the business model is very simple.Paid subscription to our audience and sponsorship and advertising and eventually syndicated research.Which we have some ideas on, which we think could be huge because it's.There's a big gap in the market there as well.So there'll be a B2B side which will be reflected in our revenue projection.Here it is.You can see that we rise from 300,000 in calendar 27 to 20 million in 2032.We are showing in each case what our audience assumptions are.We're rising from 150,000 free subs at the end of 2027 to 2 million by 2032 paid subs from 2000 to 40,000 monthly page views from 50,000 to 1.5 million.
And I should stress, and you'll see this in a minute, that this has already been tested and developed and we've developed replicable, scalable metrics to achieve all this.Our go to market tactics have been number one, PR and media.We've written two books about this topic.We're trying to actually brand the process of aging as super aging.It's not our term.It's been widely used.We couldn't patent it or copyright it, but we're embracing it as the brand of a new model of aging which says, hey, I'm 65.I might have 30 years to go.There's a hundred thousand centenarians in the United States.I can live a long time if I know what to do.
So when those books came out, we got a lot of media exposure.We were on tv, we were on radio, we were on podcasts.We established a foothold for that brand.We then amplify it with social media.I know there was a comment in an earlier presentation about the expense of social media, which is true, but we have a very excellent social media resource and we work with some very excellent, interesting algorithms.And contrary to popular belief, the quote unquote older market is massively on social media and we are able to generate an average month, at least a hundred thousand impressions, sometimes more.And we are able to land newsletter subs at a ridiculous $1.And we've proven this month after month after month with our social media program.So we amplify our primary with social media and with thought leadership.We are frequent guests on podcasts, we've presented at industry events, and we've created a little something called the Super Ag News Network where we carry content sharing with compatible websites and podcasts.
And we have a lot of experience in that area from our past lives.Here's our early traction and you can see very dramatic newsletter growth and website growth and why.One of the main reasons we're looking for this.Funding, of course, is we'd like to scale up.We've been doing this with our own money and proving out the metrics and proving out the model.
And now if we can scale it, we think it can get really crazy really quickly.But it's, it's a very strong positive growth curve with the metrics we've established.The competitive landscape is interesting.You have one gigantic beach whale, aarp.com way you know, 60 years old.Most of their money comes out of insurance.Their membership is flat.They're huge, don't get me wrong.But they've been through several management changes.They had a complete purge last year, so they're not really growing.The other websites are strong but limited.And we defined this, by the way, as people who are covering all the different topics.So New York Times isn't on here because although they cover healthy aging, they cover sports and news and politics and everything else.So these are the competitive set we've identified.And basically we think it's an underdeveloped segment.Digital media for longevity, waiting for a strong brand like ours to come in and do a lot of damage.
And we think that it's very feasible to do that.AARP is certainly the juggernaut, but they're not really, they're struggling to grow and they don't really, they haven't really increased their, their audience in a long, long time.Our team, three people, we all come out of ad backgrounds, decades in the ad agency business.In my case, 20 years at a media company as well in Toronto, but with an international market that targeted the quote unquote older market.Our content director also worked there for 20 years.Full disclosure, my beautiful wife, but she has 20 years of doing digital media for the older market, producing newsletters that she took from 10,000 to 80,000 subs and managing 10 titles.So she knows where all the bodies are buried.She knows where to get the content.And if you look at our website and you look at our newsletter and you look at what we've got, you'll see that we have got a very, I think, strong base of content.
We're not worried about where to get the content.It's the marketing.I've written four books on longevity and the reinvention of aging.Larry Wolf, my partner, was a fellow well friendly competitor in advertising, expert on brand marketing with Fortune 500 companies.Also some entrepreneurial background.He acquired Astro Yogurt, a leading Canadian yogurt company and flipped it out at a profit.But so he's got Some entrepreneurial chops as well.So we are very deep in this area and with very deep with media and branding and we think we've succeeded in creating a strong brand here and a very strong audience growth.Our ask is 600,000, a 15% discount in sales with a post money cap of 10 and a 14 month Runway.We have 150,000 of our own money in the deal plus significant resources at no cost.We're not billing fees to the company, so that's why we've been able to do all this.
And as you can see, 40% of the money will go toward marketing and sales and 35% toward developing the product further.So that's our story.
Sid responds with praise but warns that digital media and aging-focused content are difficult markets. He questions whether the audience growth and monetization assumptions are strong enough to support the projected revenue.
Speaker G
Hope I didn't rush it too much.I was very conscious of the time and thank you and fire away.
Speaker A
Thanks, David.
Go ahead, please.
Speaker B
Is Alex gone?
Speaker A
Yeah, I think so.Yeah.Yeah, yeah,
Speaker B
yeah.
Speaker G
Okay.
Speaker A
Yeah.David just met with Alex the other day, so.
Speaker G
Yesterday?Yeah, yesterday.
Speaker B
So David, David.Good, smooth presentation, very comfortable.Shows the chops of presenting over the years and being comfortable with the idea.There is clear demand in this space that you, you are suggesting there is on this, on top of anybody that's getting older, two things.
One, and this is my bias.I like to expose my bias myself because then it's, I'm not hiding it under it.About 20 years ago, I started a company called Let Life In.Actually, I didn't, I invest in it focusing on this age group.It didn't work.It proved to be extremely difficult to penetrate.
It's noisy and it is difficult.
So that I have a little bias against it.I like this space, but I'm telling you it's not as easy as, as you would, you would imagine.Now you do have some chops as with your books and so that's, that's wonderful.You've got some, some traction in that, in that front.But getting to a place where you can convert newsletter people to paid newsletter.I don't know.You mentioned you get them at a dollar to be a newsletter person.But is that dollar turning into some paid subscriptions or is it that they come and they, they click on a subscription and then how much of them are actually using.What's the.I saw the viewerships.That's, that's nice.The trend of going from 2,000 or less than 2,000 over the past three years to 10,000 thousand shows that the penetration is not that, that fast.
Now I bet you started with something that was kind of a hobby with you and supercharging and you wrote the book and then you did this and all of a sudden it's picking up speed because of all the activities and the brandings you're doing.But what I see is you're in true you have a, a good wave of, of positive trend behind you which is the aging but you have two negative things working against you.One is news and media space.
Media space, digital media space and, and making it work from a commercial perspective is very difficult.It's difficult because of the noise.It's difficult and you can see the big, big brands that have obviously they're not specifically in where you are but they have challenges in monetizing advertising dollars are going down.I mean it's, it's a challenging space to be in a digital news if you would content provider that by itself has nothing to do with you.So that's a, that's a, that's a dark fight of a.Of a space.The other negative one which kind of counterbalances your.
Your potential if you would positive of being on an.On the.On the age extension business is the.Is the notion of brand support which you do have some chops again and it's clear that you've done some work with them and hopefully you can bring some of them in.But you have confusing if you would or diluting factors in the social media space from a, from a influencer perspective that is diluting the hell out of value of advertising.
So all of that said, I think from a presentation perspective it was a clean perspective.You, you established what you're doing from a money perspective to get to where you want.I think you need a lot more money than you.You anticipate it's, it needs, it needs more money because it's a dog fight and the digital market and the news market is a, is a tough one.
So does that I hope I have again I'm trying to be conscious of the time and be.
Be you know, very, very precise with my comments but overall the presentation is clean.
David explains the subscription and sponsorship assumptions behind the forecast, while Sid argues that engagement and scale are still too low for the ad model. They discuss the limits of digital advertising and the need for stronger traction.
Speaker B
The financials in terms of the 20 million isn't, isn't unreasonable if the other assumptions work.But what you're saying is you're going to get about a third or a fourth of your 90 million immediate subscribers within the first three years.That's a bit aggressive now.I saw that conferences and other things.Yeah
Speaker G
we're showing 4000 paid subscribers in year two.So we're only showing.We're showing less than a million of consumer subscription income rising to 40,000 which would be 4 million.So the bulk of it's going to come from advertising and sponsorships and B2B services.
So we are, we're not trying to say that we can convert, but in our experience what's happening in digital media right now in this space is that sponsored content, not ad banners and not biddable, not programmatic and not cpm, but high quality editorial sponsorship sitting adjacent to it.Geo targeted to the areas that the advertiser wants.When you take a look at senior living communities, when you take a look at new products, many of whom probably are coming on here with exciting new products relating to aging and age tech, but they don't have the budgets of the farmers to buy commercials on cnn.We think there's a huge market for digital sponsorships that we've had some experience with.I'm not trying to,
Speaker B
yeah, I'm
Speaker G
not trying to contradict you, but.
Speaker B
No, no, no,
Speaker G
no,
Speaker B
through,
Speaker G
we've thought through that angle a little bit.I was going to say.
Speaker B
David, you're not actually contradicting me.I, what I'm saying is twofold.One is yes, the content and having sponsorships in the brands, it is, it is, it is valuable.But you need to be at a million, 2 million, 3 million viewership for you to be able to demand the, the numbers that you want from a revenue perspective from the big, big players.That is you have, you have to have a lot more traction than what you've shown.A lot more.Two reasons.One is you have a competition with the AI.Now you're going to say how the hell is that?For example, the Google click throughs to good content has dropped by 40, 50, 60% because people love summarizing chat.That's, it's just.Okay, I'm gonna get the summary of this thing in two minutes and God bless.Now when you summarize things on, on a chat GPT stuff there is no advertising next to it.
You just lost that revenue.So they have to click and go to the source and read actual content.And this is a problem with people.It's, it's not you, it's people.It's is what we've trained them to do now.
Now what that means is if you want to get that now you have to have a climb a much higher ladder in terms of the amount of dollars that you have to spend in advertising and in marketing in order to overcome that, to get those, that many people to your side so that you can put something next to your content and say so there is lot more investment required in order to get the volume of the Of.Of the stuff that you need to do.Okay.
Speaker G
Can I ask you a question?Regard.Can I ask you a question?Yeah,
Speaker B
sure.Let me.Let me finish the thought and.
Speaker G
No, no, please.I don't want to interrupt you.This is gold for me.
Speaker B
Okay.My point is the digital revenue channel that you are banking on here may be less valuable than other things that you could do.
Speaker G
I
Speaker B
think you mentioned.I'm not sure because, you know, it's.Now the, the stuff about conferences, the stuff about product endorsements and product sales, the stuff about those.Those which should, in my opinion, I could be wrong in the longer term, I think are a bigger, Bigger piece of your.Your revenue then the advertising and branding.The actual transaction piece could be more.Because you cut through the noise.
Speaker G
Yes.Okay, so I have two questions then that'll help me.Big.Number one on the audience size.I have a Runway on our financial projection that I think I'm still sharing with you of 150,000 pre.By year three or four, I do get to a million, and that's based on being able to land those subs at what we're doing now.So we are just scaling up with the money we raise.
And we thought through that very carefully that we actually, it's quite feasible to get there because the market is so big and we only want a 1% penetration.But so that.I want to know how to handle that.Is that invalid?
Speaker B
That's
Speaker G
my
Speaker B
first
Speaker G
question.
Speaker B
No.So.So with your claim that you're saying $1 and I get a subscription.If you raise 150,000 going, you have.You're saying you have 10,000 people, but it's taken you three years to get there.But we
Speaker G
only started in.But, but that's because.Excuse me.That's because we've been trickling our money in out of our own pocket.
Speaker B
All right,
Speaker G
the last two.The last three months, we've.We've tripled from four to ten in three months.
Speaker B
Again, David, if you.If you let me finish the thought that.
Speaker G
I'm sorry.
Speaker B
Yeah, I'm getting where.Where you're going.It.I'm saying you had not spent a dollar per to capture those things.Otherwise, if you're getting $150,000 of fresh cashmere will give you.And then you begin to prove.And you're saying that dollar is.Is proven that you can get to 150 million based on a dollar per.Because 150,000 based on a dollar per conversion to be.But the question is how many of that 150,000 people are actually engaged.
How many are there?How many are viewing things?That's what the brands are going to look for.You can say I have150,000 subscribers, but you know, it's free.You can get anybody to come in for a dollar.You've paid for them to get them in, in essence for them.The key is are they engaged, are they clicking on things?
Speaker G
Sure.
Speaker B
Are they buying things?Are they the right kind of people?Right.So.And in order to get to that level, your $150,000 is not enough.That's my point.You need to have 450,000 before that you have that 100,000.That would attract the right kind of brands to be paying the pricing that you demand to be able to do that.Okay.I'm not sure if it makes sense.
Speaker G
No, completely makes sense.
The conversation shifts toward co-branded products and direct sales as a better fit for the audience. Sid argues that transactional revenue may outperform advertising and suggests testing products with the existing subscriber base.
Speaker G
There's also stuff I should have maybe put in here.We have a 40% open rate on our email emails.We have a high level of audience engagement measured by mailchimp.But that, that makes me sound defensive.I don't want to do that.I want to go to what you said about products because that would be co branded products, sales and so on.
How would I estimate that?Because you're quite right.If we can sell stuff directly to that audience, it's a way more reliable and scalable than advertising which has to, you have to go out and sell each deal.
Speaker B
Yeah, I think I, this is what I'm saying.It's very, very hard.And again, I'm a little biased in this space because I, I, there was a very fine gentleman who was the editor of this and a branding of that and the head of advertising for, for the, you know, Florida lotto.And he had all this credibility and he did try very, very genuinely with it and he understood.But it is a difficult market to get into.It just is.
Speaker G
Yeah, okay,
Speaker B
okay, okay.It's got nothing to do with you.And, and God bless you.
Speaker G
No, no, I
Speaker B
hear
Speaker G
you.I, we had to cross that bridge many times.
Speaker B
Yeah, so, so the question is being realistic about things.I just don't think that this is a great market because people buy, here's the thing, old people.And what is it that Q, Q, what's that TV program?
The, the, the, the, the I, I, I, it, it escapes me that you go buy stuff on
Speaker A
qvc.
Speaker B
Qvc.
Speaker A
Qvc.
Speaker B
Okay.
Speaker G
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
Okay.The proof of this age group is qvc.They love to buy on demand from places.
Speaker G
Yes, yes.
Speaker B
Okay.
So this is very different from the younger.If they're watching this and they see other, this can help my age.They're going to click and they're going to buy.
Speaker G
Yep.
Speaker B
Okay, so this is a wonderful thing.This is a good thing as opposed to going to the route of competing with the AI summarization and then hoping to increase that volume so much that they would click and then people would see it in advertising.The people like the Forbes and the LA Times and the, and the economy mean all of those guys are having a challenge in that because it just doesn't work.It's, it's too much noise in there.So my suggestion is you have a better opportunity leveraging it from a transactional perspective.Can I tell you exactly what those numbers are?
No, but that, but I would recommend you to look at the business model tilted towards that.And I think with even 10, 15,000 people subscribers, you could test market that by going to three or four of these.You have the book, you have the credibility.You could approach this people and say I have, I have a potential of 10,000 people.That's, that's something that are potential buyers.That's something that not many people have.So you can test market with a, contain 10,000 target with some products.
If you can sell 100 units, boom, you've got yourself a business model.
Speaker G
Very good, very good.Because we know.I'm reinforcing your point.We know exactly how much money this market spends to the dollar almost on supplements, nutraceuticals, vitamins, safety products, mobility products, it's all very well known.
So we could test co branding of a few products and then blow that out into the model and that would be a more, more scalable foundation for revenue than advertising, you're saying?
Speaker B
Yep, that, that, that's what I would do.That's what I should have done 20 years ago and I didn't.But the transactions weren't as, as, as smooth as it is today.
Speaker G
Yeah.
Speaker B
I'm telling you from experience, this market is hard.I'm telling you from experience, my wife has a publication with quality prime content from people that are just uniquely well known.It doesn't get the traction that it should because people love this summarizing as a two liner and they can go to a, you know, to a party and claim that they know everything about everything because they spent 12 minutes on, on Instagram.It's just a fact.
David thanks the panel for the feedback and the host closes the session. The recording and follow-up office hours are announced before the meeting ends.
Speaker G
Yeah, I appreciate that very much.It's extremely helpful.
Speaker B
I am, I'm hopeful that it was helpful and I think
Speaker G
very helpful.I hope I didn't say, I hope I didn't sound argumentative.I just wanted to learn more.
Speaker B
No, you did not.You did not.I just have to run.I am way, way.Thank you so
Speaker A
much.
Speaker B
Shortchange you because we talk too much to the first three people.
Speaker G
No, I appreciate it very
Speaker B
much.
Speaker G
Very much.Thank you.
Speaker A
As always, really appreciate your time and expertise.Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker B
My pleasure.Very much.
Speaker A
All right, we'll talk soon.Everyone.Thanks so much and great job.Thank you.This session recording will be available on our platform probably sometime next week.Sarah will post it on Slack.I'll be back this afternoon.And office hours.Have a good one, everyone.Bye.Bye.
Speaker G
Thank you.It.