Transcript
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The conversation opens with Neuro's rapid rise, affiliate-driven creator growth, and the biggest early mistake involving a trademark lawsuit. It then shifts into how the company is structured and what the founders look for when hiring.
You're one of the fastest growing D2C brands in the world.Tell me what's the smartest thing you did in Neurogun, which a new founder can copy and the world doesn't know about.We got creators and we used affiliate marketing to a degree incentivized those influencers to be able to make money on every single sale you're doing.Like our top creators made like $150,000 in a month.No way.That's a CEO salary.There has to be something which would be of like blow up moment.It's easy to break down a company into five different sections.There's ops, sales, finance, marketing, and then leadership.Everything you're doing to grow the business should be within all those frameworks and how those frameworks communicate with each other.And we hire those people into the team.And we thought of a organizational framework like the business took off.So, how do you hire?
What do you look for people?Trust.Is it a person that you have trust in from an experiential level, but also a personal level?Two, is there humility involved?Is this person willing to admit their mistakes so that they could learn from it?Which leads into the third thing, finding a problem solver.Tell me three values that you as a brand stand for.When we build out our brand book, we talk about do we have calm leadership?We should always be able to solve any problem with a smile on our face.Humility.Do all of us, no matter what position we're in, understand that every level serves others.It is.And the last one, funny enough, is kaizen.It is progress over perfection.to improve every single day versus chasing perfection is a better mantra for life because there is no such thing as perfection.
Someone who want to become an entrepreneur wants to build a brand.What do you think?What is the next category where somebody could build a billion dollar brand next?
I do think in the future stress is going to be a very very big thing.So any product that satisfies I think will be very very big.And usually throughout the history, sex, stress, sleep, these are like three biggest markets.No matter what you do,
that's never going to change, by the way.
Yeah.What's the most expensive mistake you made during your neuro career?
With our trademark, a company owned by someone worth $100 million came in and sued us.I I mean, it would have bankrupted our company.
The host introduces the episode, Neuro's Shark Tank story, and the main themes to be covered. This section frames the discussion around creator marketing, viral growth, and the lawsuit that nearly ended the company.
I have a small favor to ask you.I need you to subscribe to our channel.The more subscribers we have, the better and bigger guests we can bring and provide you more value through these conversations.And the full audio experience of this show is also available on Spotify where you can follow us and listen to the new episodes as well.In 2020, two founders walked onto Shark Tank and rejected a $1 million offer.Today, their functional gum company has done $1 135 million in sales and sits in more than 20,000 stores across the US.Today's guest is Kent Yoshimura, co-founder and CEO of Neuro.In this episode, we'll discuss what are the three psychological triggers they use to make people buy.How did one of their creators make $150,000 in a single month selling gums?How did they build an army of 2500 creators to market and make their products viral all around the internet?
How do you get other brands to distribute your product for free?And how did one lawsuit almost shut down Neuro their entire business?Watch this episode till the end.And to know more about Nuro, check the link in the description below.
Kent explains that founders should understand their weaknesses and hire to fill those gaps rather than relying on ego. He breaks the business into core functions and describes how hiring the right people helped the company take off.
So, let's break it down for every entrepreneur who's watching this cuz you guys are obviously killing it.Everyone at this point, whether you're available in their country or not, people have heard about you, right?If they're online, they've seen some version of this either through ads, through creator armies or like fake
or fake like some right?Like people have figured out you're
you're one of the fastest growing D2C brands in the world.
Mh.
And you're profitable.That's unheard of.And you're creating a new category which is even more difficult, right?You're not in a category where like, oh, this is energy drink.It's always been there, so here's another one.Like, it's this is some new
So, you guys are killing it.
Tell me what's the smartest thing you did in Eurogum which a new founder can copy
and the world doesn't know about it.
That the world doesn't know about.I thinkI think the biggest thing with entrepreneurs sometimes is they go in with so much confidence that they think they know what's right.And I think understanding your weakness is one of the most important things because when you lay out and same with martial arts, right?Like you when you're in a fight, the first round is usually trying to figure out, okay, these are the type of strikes, type of movements that the opponent is doing, and then you adjust effectively to it.for us.If you understand your weakness as an entrepreneur, then you know the right people to hire to make up for it.And so you can't have egos that are involved.And sometimes for a lot of people, like most brands, it's how do I get that initial impact of a brand?So they partner with a celebrity because it's very easy to get that impression base.
For some people, it's operational.So they hire in like a president or a COO that could effectively run the business.And you know for us the impact piece wasn't the most important but getting that word out from the impact piece at an operational level was the key thing.So as we started hiring people whether it's finance or ops you know it's easy to break down a company if you're a new budding entrepreneur into like five different sections.
Yeah.There's ops, sales, finance, um, marketing, and then leadership to tie all those pieces together.Everything you're doing to grow the business should be within all those frameworks and how those frameworks communicate with each other.So that's it.That's it.And it could be one person, it could be I mean,
so that's what you did.You found out people in the beginning.
Yeah, we um, you know, I think well, this is a less than 3 four years.And you know, I think fighting is a a solo sport.So I think I grew up like thinking I could do this all by myself with my co-founder, you know, and the reality was when we raised a little bit more money 5 years in and we hired those peopleinto the team and we thought of an organizational framework of like these are the people that are best at their pillars and their departments and they're all communicating with each other like the business took off.
The discussion turns to what actually made Neuro blow up, including Shark Tank, Joe Rogan, and early TikTok timing. Kent explains how they tested hooks daily to find the psychological triggers that made people buy.
H But then when you talk about business taking off, there has to be something which was which would be a like blow up moment.What smart thing did you do there which helped you blew up?Like what worked in your favor?
So the biggest thing for us, well there were a few big things.So like you know obviously Shark Tank and Joe Rogan I I would say is uh timing meets like right the right decisions and luck and all that stuff I was talking about.Um, Tik Tok when it first came out, there's always an opportunity with new platforms.
And this is the same with AI and any like literally any business in history.
There are people who think a little bit differently.There's no laws written like there's no laws with AI right now.There are, but they're not.There's not, right?So, they'll break all the rules as they're building their business, building the business until things catch up to them.I'm not saying we're breaking rules or loss.But with Tik Tok, are you sure?It was on camera with uh
Tik Tok.
Tik Tok there was a new platform.There was an entire creator ecosystem.And we used affiliate marketing to a degree in the past, but not at the scale Tik Tok was building it.And it became obvious to us that if we figure out the psychological triggers that get people to buy on a social media platform where they stick on even just for like 2 3 seconds that we could capture theirattention and then get them to like hear us out.We know we could sell our product.So, every single day, my uh head of growth, who runs our TikTok, who was an Amazon guy before, and I, New Year's resolution, like a few years ago, we're like, let's post every single day on Tik Tok andfigure out what hooks work with our products so that we could build the psychological trigger base that we could apply to everything else in the business as marketing.
And so we did that immediate like a month later we go viral viral viral viral like it's like back to backtoback videos and we're like okay we figured something out then we got creators of
this is your own platform
our own platform well this is on Tik Tok but platform
like your own channel on the on Tik Tok and you just okay
and now Tik Tok's massive on Tik Tok massive
but you know in many ways we built the brand like we built guide for a lot of that stuff.
Kent breaks down the three main psychological triggers behind their content: feeling left out, insecurity, and self-improvement. He gives examples of how each trigger can be used in hooks and ads.
You know, there's
So, every day, how many posts, how many Tik Toks were you pro promoting or producing?
So, at our peak, we had 2500 creators.I think we have 2500 creators.
No, before creators, just you when you were doing
Oh, like three, four, five like posts.Nothing crazy.
Okay.So, four posts a day every day for 30 days and you were just trying different different kind of hooks, different kind of things.What worked in your favor?Give me top three lessons that anybody can steal right now.
So there's different psych.So there's I keep using the word psychological triggers, but it is true.Like when you go to someone and it's like the art of selling comes from do you feel left out?Oh my god, everyone else is taking your gum, but I'm not taking it right.There is like um that component of it.There is insecurities.So oh my god, I feel so tired and I don't have the like I stumble over my words.um is there a product out there that could help me have the confidence to be able to get rid of my brain fog so that I could speak better and then there's other psychological triggers like uh this isif I don't have this my I am missing out on some it's similar to FOMO but at a self-improvement level which is all the biohackers
okay give me tell me more about this I got the left out and then the insecurity and what's this one
left out the insecurities um like uh it's it's similar to being left out but left being left out is a social construct.
Yeah.
Another one is tapping into and this is a combination of probably left out and insecurity but another psychological trigger that we tapped into the biohackers with is I am trying to maximize my day but I am having theinability to do so because something is missing in my life.So how do you fit into that?It's a self-improvement construct.
Interesting.
Do you remember any hook from each one of them so that I can get an example?
Absolutely.
Yeah.So tell me one example for left out.How do you create a a Tik Tok or a real or a video where you are able to communicate or give people FOMO that hey everyone else is taking and I'm the only one who's who's loser who's nottaking it.
The easiest way to do it if you have good media is get the PR that you need.So, it's like Time magazine's talking about it.Kim Kardashian is posting about it.Joe Rogan is talking about it.You've seen it on Shark Tank, right?There's all this earned media all of a sudden and like and then you show all these people like chewing it like these famous people especially chewing the product and then all of a sudden you're like if famous peopleare chewing it why am I not you know and that almost plays into the other one on the self-improvement piece.an example of the self-improvement.Have you seen Limitless?
No.
The movie?
No.
Um, with Bradley Cooper, it was a pill that makes you a genius.So, you take So, the
I know about it.Yeah.Yeah.
So, the the hook was just like the Limitless pill is here now.
Oh,
the real life limitless pill is here.So, now that's not feeling left out or an insecurity.It's oh my god, I could be limitless, right?So, that's another hook.
The conversation continues with examples of how Neuro used confidence, focus, and FOMO to frame its product. Kent explains how repeated testing of these hooks led to viral content and set up the creator strategy.
That's like that something is missing out kind of thing.
Yeah.Like but for yourself.
Yeah.
Not within a social construct.
Okay.Yes.
And then that last one, the insecurity is like I mean how you're you're still 29 so you probably don't get these ads.I'm 38.I get ads on my Instagram for hair loss, my dick not working, uh like all those things, right?Like marriage counseling.Those are all like small like those are insecurities that people once they get into their older age field.So like I'm the perfect audience.Like I mean I have hair and you know everything everything's fine but but um I'm getting targeted and I'm sure the second you turn 35 you're going to get those ads too.
Yes.
Cuz those are insecurities that people have deep down in them that they're like okay I need to be able to fix.
Right.So,
so that audience you tapped on with gum
and the way you tap into it for us is
like what were you saying like what give me a
like an example?
Yeah, give me an example.Give me a sample.
I'll give you I'll give you two examples.One that's you know reasonable and one that's more on the extreme side.
Okay.Give me both.So on the reasonable side, uh, for us, it's like if you're going on a date and you don't have the confidence because you're stumbling over your words, you're tired after a full day, anything, this is a product thatyou could chew right beforehand, and your words will come out like free flowing.Like you'll you'll have the confidence, the energy, and the focus to be able to crush it in that moment before you're going.And you see with India marketing too before going into a meeting or a podcast like this I pop a piece and I'm locked in.I'm ready to go you know.So you're going to crush your job interview.You're going to crush your promotion.You're going to crush your So that's it.That's having that conf.It's it's less so insecurity.It's building that confidence.But that's also expanding into you know there's been evidence around caffeine and elenine like we have science backing on everything that we do.
The clinical trials have showed that this helps people with their focus problems.So what's a focus problem that people have?ADD ADHD.And when you're have ADD ADHD and you have dopamine cuz you're doom scrolling all the time and you can't focus.And because you can't focus, other things in your life are suffering and you're struggling to be able to do things.We're a product that could come in and help you fix that.
So you could anchor that insecurity into anything, right?The the through into everything.
Interesting.Okay.So this is I I love this by the way.This psychological triggers.So this is what you would do every day.four or five content pieces.You would try out these different things.Either the left out insecurities or something is missing.These three things you would tap on and you would find out the winning ones.So you would go viral again and again again
and then the creators came in.Right.
Exactly.
Kent explains how Neuro turned winning hooks into a creator army by using affiliate networks and Discord communities. He describes the incentive structure, creator levels, and how the system became self-replicating.
So what happens with the creator?What was
you have this
and you create these hooks that are actually working and make sense.How do you deploy that into an army of people that can now do it times 2500?
Yeah.You know, so now all of a sudden, like the reason you've probably seen the content is because as one brand, you could only have so much budget and so much creative content to create yourself.If you expand that out into a network of sales people and marketing people that are using these triggers to communicate that out for you, now all of a sudden you're amplifying and multiplying your message by tens of thousandsfold to what you're doing.So how are you effectively doing that?You know, in anything that you do, there's different ways to do it.It doesn't have to be creators.Like
give me step by step.What did you do exactly?I understand that the moment you multiply it by 2500, it's going to go bonkers, right?Because you already have the winning formula that what is working, what's going viral, you're just going to give those as a sample things to your creators and be like, "Hey, use one of these.We know it works.Just go crazy."
And when it goes viral, you spend ads behind it, right?So, and then it keeps
Yeah.Yeah.So, that part like just tell me everything.Okay.So, you get you get 2500 creators at once.How did you design this?Who runs this?Who what was the first step?like I want to know everything.So, our head of growth, Jonathan, um there's different creator networks that you they're all pretty small, but there are different creator networks um and affiliate networks that turned into creator networks.Like, it's not necessarily a new idea, right?You have influencer programs and things like that, but if you incentivize those influencers to be able to make money on every single sale you're doing, but we give you the playbook on how to do it because we knowit's going to go viral.Then it's easy to replicate it across the board.So through that process, we were already going viral, so it was easy to get creators in and you have a Discord and all the creators are talking.
So what did you do?How did you get those creators in and did you pay them up front?Did you ask them to join your affiliate program?Like what was it?
So if you could create the most effective referral program in the world, how would you do that?And that's our next step.
Yeah.
That we're thinking of in the company.
Okay.
But let me take a step back.Let's start with
Yeah.uh and the US market and any social media platform by the way right at the end of the day that where you could track sales
you could tap into any influencer network or creator network that exists now for us those things didn't really exist so we had to grab people from influencer networks there were already small creator programs so we grabbed from like10 different creator programs to create our initial army start a channel where they're all talking to each other that you could feed them content from and this is something Funny enough that I learned from the NFT days.Did you ever do NFTs?
Yeah.Yeah.I lost tons of money in that.
Yeah.Me, too.Me, too.You and me, brother.
Big trauma back.
Remember you were in a Discord?
Yeah.
And you're like,
I'm just waiting for the drop.
They're waiting for the drop.GM.GM.And then the second a drop happens, everyone's talking about it.Same psychology.How are you creating a community of people that are waiting for the next viral hook or something to drop or the next product or you know you're constantly feeding them content but they're all talking to each other.So now the creator is like hey this worked for me this you're creating a flywheel within its own community of creators that is figuring out it's almost like machine learning.They're figuring out on their own what hooks are working and what's not.You just have to feed them the right content to be able to do so.For us, we had Joe Rogan talking about us already, Shark Tank, Kim Kardashian posting.Now, we have all these things from before, the first 5 years that we fed into this platform.
And if you're a new budding entrepreneur, you don't need those things, but you have the psychological triggers.If you have the initial seed of virality that you can feed into people and you know it works cuz you test it yourself, have them try it and have them blast it out and if it works, you putads behind it because you know that that hook that whatever creator did is working.Now that creator goes and it's like, "Hey guys, I just made $100,000 off this one video.You guys should try a variation of this video."All these people are creating variations.Sometimes they're a little bit different and then that little bit different starts working also.So now they take that little bit different thing and the next creator starts building off that and the next builder.Do you see how it starts all linking together,
right?And then the biggest, you know, the biggest thing you have to do now as a person that runs that affiliate channel is how do you consistently keep them motivated?So now we have incentive programs.Do you have a chance to win an iPad if you hit this GMV gross merchandise value?you could uh win a trip to Miami with all the other creators.Like we would set up parties.We would rent a house and set up parties where like hundred of the top creators all get to hang out with each other and everything is paid for.You know, now it turns into this community of people that are talking.They love your product.They're angant to your product and they're selling selling selling and they're making money off you.It's like a self-replicating platform.
Intent.You don't need to do that at 2500 creators, but you could do it in your own backyard with your own community, in your own village, your own city, your own town, whatever it is.
The discussion goes deeper into how creators were recruited, ranked, and rewarded with commissions, retainers, and bonuses. Kent shares how top creators made huge sums and how that motivated the whole network.
How can you get 10 people to love your product and those 10 people are at least creating enough content and telling enough people that they're referring that product more and more and more?Virality comes from the word viral.In the same way, how do you allow a message to spread effectively?
Nice.Nice.What did you do exactly?So you were in Tik Tok.Yep.
And then how did you get these creators?Did you DM them?Did you
like build a community?What was what exactly did you do?You and your head of growth.
So Tik Tok or Tik Tok shop already had a creator sampling program that a lot of people weren't using.So the first bit was and it's a little bit different now.So I'll I'll frame it in two ways.When we first started, we were sampling out to the creators that existed into our platform.And then once they got the samples and we were communicating with them, we brought them into our own communication platform, our own Discord, so we could control the narrative on things.And then those creators, if they were, it goes from like L1 to L7, like different levels, right?
How many were them?How many did you get them on your Discord?
I mean, at the beginning, it was only like 100 or like 200.It's not that many.
And how many levels were there in 200 creators?So level one to level seven and level seven you get the highest commission but everything in life I would say is about incentives.How are you incentivizing people effectively?Right?
So give me level seven levels of your commission.
So really like level one to level three I would say well I'll just give you three layers of of commissions because it gets a little bit more nuanced.
Level one you create videos for us and you'll get 10% commission you know on sales you make.But how do you know that the sales coming directly from that link?
Because it's associated on Tik Tok at least is associated with their product card.
Okay.
And their creator profile.
Uh Meta has the same thing.Meta has like creator uh performance channels.Now, if you're doing referrals, you have like referral links, you know.So, there's a product card that people could click into and if they make a sale, they make 10% off that sale.If they hit a certain GMV, let's say they do $500 in sale, we'll give them a bonus and then they can move up to level two.
At level two, now you're operating on a retainer.We'll pay you $500 a month and then we'll give you 12% commission.So now you're motivated as a level one creator to be like, all I need to do is hit $500 in GMV.I'm going to make as much videos as possible that work until I hit that GMV value.Level two, now you have to hit $25,000 in GMV, but you're getting paid at least $500, so you're motivated.But if you don't hit that GMV within a certain time frame, you drop back down to level one.So now it's a game.And then level three, we're paying you.
And in in $500, how many videos do they have to pro put out?So typic in the past it wasn't like we we didn't have any goals like because people were so incentivized but now we have like you have to at least create four videos per week minimum.They have to be different hooks and um you have to make at least this GMV.
Okay.
Yeah.Uh that's how it is now.
And what's the GMV now?
So
in level two and level one as well.
So level one let's say $500.This could be different for different products by the way but for us it was pretty low.It was like $500 to get to level two.
Okay.$500 per month.
Per month.
Okay.That's
Oh, no.Not even not even per month.It was like hitting the $500 mark threshold like when you're selling our product.
Okay.From from beginning till the time like the moment you hit Oh, interesting.
And then and then now it's time based once you start getting to higher levels by the way.
Okay.So then in level two you have to continue to keep making how much for you to get like $500 a month.between level one, level two, level three, there's basically a breakout that's similar to like $500 or like $2,000 or like whatever that GV is, right?But it's similar commission level,
but you get a little bit more perks as you go up.
Okay.And what's in level three?So in level two, you get $500 and 12% commission.
Uh yeah, so 12 15 I say these numbers for myself, but it could be anything depending on what your margins are.So level the psychology is what matters right with the creators level four to level five like level three level four level five like whatever that second tier is now they get a retainer so they're motivated because they getpaid no matter what.
But then on top of the payment they have a higher commission rate.So from whatever 5% 10% 10% now you're going to 15%.You're making more money and you're getting paid.So now you're motivated to be like, "Dude, this is like a real job and I get paid even more."
Yeah.
Level three, we're paying you $3,000 a month.That's a real job.
That's what it was.That's crazy.
You have to make these number of videos, but if you don't hit your goals within a month, that's when time comes into play cuz we're paying you, but if you don't hit these goals within a month or aquarter, like in the first 3 months, you drop back down.
And then if you're not hitting those goals, you drop back down again.
So there's two layers that are tugging at you.It's like I have a fear of losing my position in the rankings.Also, you start becoming like a celebrity.By the way, like in the creator community, you can imagine if you're a level seven.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
I'm making all this like our top creators made made like $150,000 in a month.
No way.
That's been easy.Yeah.
He was making
That's like a tech guy's job in one month.That's a CEO salary.
Kent explains how Neuro extends creator incentives into retail and partnership channels. He shares examples of major launch moments, including Shark Tank returns, new product launches, and Costco activations.
So he's a celebrity obviously, right?And in the creator community he's like, "Oh, Espanzie, like that's the guy that made that's making all this money on Neurogum, which is very helpful to us now."He was like, "I can make that much money selling Neurogum.Like we're going to join Neurogum even as like a level one person cuz I can work my way up."
So
to reframe it again, how are you creating enough incentive structures with your margin structure, your finances, everything?And again, the commission, if you're selling a $300 product, you're not giving 10% commission.you're giving 5% commission, right?We're selling a $30 product, so whatever it is, right?But
but you can sell way more of our product than a $300 product.Same way, how are you building the right incentive structure from level one who sees the level seven people making all this money?And it's like, oh, I just need to keep making videos, keep making videos until I hit $500 GMV.Now I move up a level.Now I'm getting paid.I keep making more level seven.And then the level seven people want to stay on top.
Yeah.So that's cutthroat competition.Once you get level seven, what's the drop off?I don't I don't think there'll be like a big drop off.
Uh you know, they need to keep making the videos and you keep making the hooks, but you keep the creators on because there needs to there's still a GMV amount that they need to make.It's just much much higher.
Yeah.
So if you're not making, you know, I think for us now it's like $10,000 GMV.It's still not that crazy, but if you're not making a certain GMV amount, you drop down
a level.So, you're constantly fighting for positions.But in that same vein, if you're a level five to level seven creator, we're inviting you to that house in Miami.You know, we're giving you like cool gifts.You're giving you bonuses on top of like GMV goals you hit in specific time periods.Like, there's different ways that like we have like a Christmas launcher for example.So from uh this time period to this time period for Black Friday, if you hit this GMV goal, we give you an extra thousand dollars.
So how you creating the right incentives as you scale to make sure people are creating product training videos for you.
So how do you incentivize energy drinks?Because that's I would assume it's not like a D2C product.It's more like a retail product.Those are all the retainer creators because it's going into retail, but they have incentive structures in the back.So, similar to us cuz we're now more and more in retail.
Mhm.
What are the incentive structures and pushes to push people into Walmart or Costco or CVS or Whole Foods, wherever it is, right?It's still the same psychology and still the same foundation, but you are still paying these creators an L7 creator or whatever it is to talk about your product.And one new thing we're doing right now, if you find a top product, try to see if you can just get your product alongside that top product.If someone's talking about Bloom, sample Neurogum to them also, so that Neurogum just shows up in their video as well.You know, it's cuz it's probably similar audiences.
Yeah.
But they're getting the attention already.We have this great partnership with a company called Carpet.They uh do deodorants.They do $100 million just at Target.They realized having Neurogum in their ads as like a free offer brought their return on ad spend u well increased their return on ad spend significantly.So they've spent over $2 million on this ad that has Neurogum in it.
So we just get all the benefits for them advertising our product because it benefited them.
So Tik Tok is becoming interesting.Like all these channels are becoming so interesting where you could tap into other people.You just have to find the right places where you could get the right number of impressions to the right audience.
This is super interesting.This I've never heard the partnership model.Explain.Tell me more about if somebody wants to tap on this.uh what do you do like you go to the to the brands which already super successful or like killing it or crushing it and how do you partner synergize and what's in it for them to put you onthe shelf because you're a successful brand I'm talking about let's say I'm starting this new brand and then there is no incentive for me or there is no incentive for you to come partner with me right
right so how do I convince you to put my products in your videos what's how do I explore partnerships
I mean you have to start somewhere so a lot of you know when we're talking about how do you kick off a company, you get the awareness.So, K2O um the chief revenue officer at Mary Ruth, which was a top product.
Mhm.
Um great guy, left and start KTO with uh Kylie Kylie Jenner.
Um Jay Hunter.Uh started with Kylie Jenner.That was his initial catalyst to get a really hard launch to be able to get other creators involved with him.
Right?So what is that catalyst moment?Like if you're launching a product everything like a rocket needs fuel to launch off, you know, like a rocket that's sitting on the ground is useless.You still need to find that effective thing to get it going.And then in that moment where you're like launch is the most exciting part, you're taking off.You go find other brands.If that's your model, you go find other brands to partner with and start sampling to.You start looking at creators and you start creating like a really appetizing incentive program to get them involved.You have to find like the right moment.So like uh for us for example like three examples of big moments as a brand our size and then I'll go and talk about a new brand.We went back on Shark Tank twice, right?So we were the only brand in Shark Tank history to not get a deal the first time and go back on Shark Tank again.
We knew that that was a really big moment.So we got all of our creators being like we're going back on Shark Tank.Now all of our creators are like what?Oo, this is a big moment.Everyone's going to be hearing about us.They tapped in.We built a campaign and pushed the product out then.
So that's a big moment.
Um we knew we're launching this new product sour.
Yeah.
So you know a few weeks ago I went in and spoke to like 500 creators or something being like we're launching sour.This is what the launch plan is.We're doing all these activations and we're giving incentives for the first week to push where you get an extra x amount of dollars if you push the sour product and you make sales.Now everyone's excited.That's part of like a launch strategy.So people get involved and jump right in and they go really really hard.And then again, how do you take that leverage?And then I guess for like a third thing, if you're entering into a retail store, we were entering into Costco.That was a really big thing.Costco is like the biggest retail, one of the biggest retailers in the world.How are we building incentive structures?We're paying people now, not even just retailers.
If you talk about Costco in your video and you get a certain amount of views, we'll give you an extra $100.So now everyone's like, they're going to Costco, get an extra $100.Yeah.Well, of course.
That is retainer plus the extra cost because that you can't track through affiliate links, right?
Yeah.Exactly.
Yeah.So they're not going to get commission, but they're going to they're on your retainer, so they're a community, so they'll do it.
The conversation explores unconventional launch ideas, from truck billboards to challenge-based campaigns. Kent and the host brainstorm how a new supplement brand could create attention through playful, memorable activations.
Exactly.And for us, it's like we were going to pay that amount for marketing anyways.These people talk about it.And depending on the level of creator you are, you know, or like a influencer you are, you obviously get more money or not like based on your reach.
So for a new brand, what is that?You can't expect to make the greatest product in the world and think everyone's going to love it and know about it and learn about it right off the bat.You have to create some catalyst for people to know about your product.So, some of the more creative things I've seen with launch plans, obviously there's the celebrity launch plan.K2O did a great job um by getting Kylie Jenner obviously involved.
I've seen other brands that would do a big launch at something like a CES like David Protein.Do you know David?Peter.Yeah.
Yeah.So, his co-founder is an investor in us.Uh Jared at RX Bar, but um and they crushed it in the bar space, right?
They killed it.
Expo West.Genius, right?They didn't exhibit at Expo West because they were too small, but they rented a truck, like a massive like semi whatever.You know, one of those big trucks that had like a jacked cow on the side of it and all it did was just drive around the biggest CPG convention.It just drove around over and everyone was talking about it because they were just like what the what is that?
And that is your community.You're not even there.So people are looking for you too cuz it's like oh what is that David Pro?They realize you're not even there so they go out and find you somewhere else.Genius.Genius.Genius.This is in Wow.I didn't know this.It's a freaking billboard that they're driving around to their community.All all the retailers are there talking about their new protein bar and then like they didn't even have to pay $50,000 for a booth.They took that $50,000 and they're like we're going to put advertising on the side of a truck instead that's just driving around for 3 days straight.
Nice.And this would be as like dirt price.
Yeah.It's like it would have been the same price to get less impact.
Yeah.
And now they're doing this and then now obviously everyone's like, "Holy that's genius.I'm going to write about it."No, all these news articles are being written about it.People are talking about it.
So what is that?Like whatever you're creating,
you have to just be creative and think what is that thing that's different.You
think differently, you know, Steve, think differently.How are you standing out
outside the crowd?
Do you want to do this with me?Think on the fly.
Yeah, sure.
Like, okay, like let's do let's do an experiment.So let's say if there's a new brand who's starting out, what can be this this genius random idea?
Give me the brand.Give me a brand.Give me a product.
Um, let's say everybody's starting supplement brands.Let's pick up supplement brand because that's like the tough category to get or coffee brand.You pick up which one.
Okay, let's do supplement brand cuz everyone's doing supplements.
Yeah.
And what is it?What format is it?Is it a pill?Is it a liposomaal?Like what's the
let's say it's a it's a magnesium supplement for better sleep.
Magnesium supplement for better sleep.
Yeah.
So, one thing I actually saw and this is not a new idea, but maybe we could come up with some creative idea.Do you know what the bedrot challenge is?
Bedrot?
Yeah.
No.
So, it's how long you could just sleep in bed for?So, it's like a Mr.Beast style challenge that this company did.I forgot what the company was, but it was a challenge that they brought in like a hundred creators and the person that sleeps in bed the longest wins like $100,000, which is the most Mr.Beast thing, by the way.It's like sleep for as long as possible and win $100,000.But it's on Tik Tok live 24/7 the entire time and then on Twitch and all these other live streaming channels and YouTube and stuff too.So people would tune in to see what if people are sleeping or not.It's crazy.But it's a it's for this product that's all about how long can you sleep good sleep.I was like damn that is genius.Because all they did was just set up a room with like a bunch of beds and it's just people sleeping and people are
and whoever gets up just gets eliminated.
Yeah.If they need to go to the bathroom and get up, they're done.
And even if they get up like can are they allowed to be just be awake and be on the bed.
Yeah.Yeah.
That is allowed.
That's allowed.
Okay.
But there but then you can't be on your phone.You can't like So you start going crazy, right?
So now there's a leaderboard of people, right?And it's like this person got eliminated and then maybe there's like alarms and stuff going off.I forgot what it was.Like every time someone got eliminated, there was like a big thing.So people are now tuning in to this thing about your product to see who's getting eliminated challenge.
That's a good idea.That that can be like a
It's hilarious.
They discuss whether funny or gimmicky campaigns hurt brand seriousness, and Kent argues that awareness comes first. He gives examples like dentist partnerships and other low-cost distribution channels that create trust and reach.
Yeah, it it is fun.
It's like the new uh the grocery shop video, you know, and I went to visit the grocery store um when I was with Jimmy in North Carolina.Dude, he set up this entire grocery store and it was like last like it was something like you eat the entire grocery store and then you get to leave.Yeah.And you win this money.I mean like those people weren't getting paid to be there every single day.They got paid after they won the challenge and they left.And of course it's Jimmy so he made it interesting the whole way through and they gave them incentives and things like that for the video.But anyone can do that.M nice.
It could even be yourself, you know.It's like
Do you think that if somebody does something like this, they would automatically be considered as not serious brand?
Because that's someone who wants to associate themselves with sleep and wants to be serious, wants to be seen as this guy or this brand which is like optimize your sleep, get better sleep, declutter your mind, whatever, whatever, whatever.And then I do this funny Mr.B style video.Will it dilute my brand preposition and not be a and will I not be able to target the right kind of audience who I want to reach?
It I mean obviously it depends on your audience but is feastable not a real brand because Mr.beast is advertising it.You know, like obviously he has other videos that are talking about the child labor and everything.Everything is a funnel, right?People have heard about the funnel in business.The first layer has to be the awareness, the hook.How are you getting people in?And of course, with something like this, yeah, it might be gimmicky, but you're getting an awareness.There could be something a little bit more serious.Like other ways people do it is like Andrew Hooverman, who you've had on your podcast.people respect him.He's a doctor that of opthalmology, you know, whatever it is at Stanford and has all these different people.
Lament, the drink uh the stick pack brand
got their start because they tapped into Andrew Hooverman's audience and then it built like a ser so that was the awareness.They got a doctor that they last
but it's expensive now, right?
Dude, do you know what's not expensive that we do?dentists.So, we work with a company called PDS.They're the largest dental clinic in the United States and we're like, you know what's really good for your teeth?Gum with xylitol, no sugar.
But are they allowed to promote?
Yeah.We're in every single one of you know how you get a little gift bag after you with a toothbrush and all that like boring stuff.They're like, we want to make this more fun.We did a partnership with PDS and now every single person that leaves their dental clinic if they drink coffee gets neurogum instead.It's like oh coffee stains your teeth.You want energy you should chew this.
So is there all that cost was the cost of our product.
You give them to for free and then they just distribute it
and that's awareness also.
Yeah.
Right.So there you could obviously pay someone like a Hoover man and obviously you could pay with equity and stuff too if you're a startup but um you could pay an influencer that is very expensive or you could tapinto networks that are traditional like dentists aren't getting paid influencer but you could tap into networks like that also.There's always an opportunity.So let's go back to your magnesium sleep thing.You know what?If like I mean there's a bunch of mattress companies out there.What if you like partner with a mattress company and be like, "Hey, we're giving you this product for free."And we actually did this with a pillow company with our sleep product where it was every single person that buys a pillow gets a free neurosleep.And so they're going to go to sleep anyways.They see this product that helps them with sleep.
It's obvious.
There's so many ways you can skin it.And you got to be creative and if you're not dude delivery service is huge in India right imagine I don't know if they talk to each other but that is a job where you have to constantly be onthe go and you know the wages on that are not like these guys are getting paid $150,000 a month
but those are people that are interacting with other people every single day.
Yeah.I was, you know, I had this idea like that I was hinting at earlier, but what if there is a referral program built into this driver community where you give them somehow like there's probably hubs where like allthem are hanging out waiting for their next order to come in.Like I see it here like you know you see these lines of cars waiting to pick up food.What if you go and sample Neurogum to every single one of those people and you're like, "Hey, go sample like 25 of these.I'll give you 100 bucks for the next 25 orders.Next 25 coffee orders, give them Neurogum instead.Now that community gets an alternative,
it's not allowed that the brands that they work with, they don't allow them to do it.
They don't.
Yeah, they don't.
That's That's why it was an idea.That's a good idea.I didn't look into it.I didn't look into it.
That's a good idea
cuz I was just like, damn.Like you could tap into them.They're interacting with you know exactly what they're ordering.If they're ordering a coffee or if it's night time and they're can't sleep, it's like dude.
Oh, sleep.
Oh my god.Perfect.What about if you give them your product?It's like, hey, by the way, this is free with your delivery.
Yeah.
Damn.
That you can't do.You can do that with delivery platforms as an advertising tool, but that's expensive.
Yeah, but you know, you can break the rules a little bit.
I mean,
yeah,
you're allowed.Everyone's allowed to break the rules.
Everyone's allowed until you get caught.Until you get caught.And there's no home.
Yeah.Yeah.But usually the first time you get caught is just a slap on the wrist.Yeah.
So some different ideas.I was like, "Oh man, like how do you just tap into these spaces?"
Yeah.Have you heard I don't know who who was this entrepreneur in US.I saw this clip like years ago.I think this is 2020 or something.The Shark Tank person and that guy said like if in the beginning you're breaking some rules which is not which is not harming people but harming other big giant businesses, it's okay.
Yeah.I was like I was like
I think everyone agrees with that
publicly but it's okay
everyone agrees with that
Kent and the host debate whether large influencers or micro creators are more effective. They compare trust, conversion, and the need to amplify big-name partnerships with additional marketing spend.
true
like legally it's the wrong thing to do but
you have to break rules you have to break rules like that's not not again don't hurt people
as long as you're not harming people but harming a large joint to take out like just a percentage of their business I think that should be
even what David did that was like He broke the rule.
What did he do?
Well, the rule he broke by driving a truck around this convention is he didn't pay for the convention,
but he still advertised at it.It's so funny.
True.True.Okay.You know, two things you said on the on the whole creator influencer kind of thing.Do you get these influencers who are already established and big or do you find these new creators to do it?What do you do?So what's really interesting is micro influencers I think are more and more popular now.Yeah.Because so if you asked me this question five years ago it would have been a different answer.Five years ago you get a really big influencer like a Kim Kardashian and everyone wants to be like Kim Kardashian so they like tap they Yeah.The queen bee factor.Exactly.
Now the trust of big influencers have diminished significantly because of brand deals but and also the rise of Tik Tok and creators.If you get a creator that has not even a creator, if you get someone that has like, let's say, a thousand followers, that person with a thousand followers, all thousand followers probably knows this person really, really well andvice versa.So, if they're talking about a product in a genuine way, the chances of you getting a higher conversion rate on a,000 followers versus a very low conversion rate, even if they have 10,000 followers, for the price is muchmore effective.
Yeah.
You pay someone that has, let's say, 100,000 followers and has a 0.1% conversion rate, but you pay them $100,000, right?You just paid that person with a thousand followers probably like a 250 bucks and now they get you have half their follow 500 followers like following your product at economy of scale that's so much more impactful and theylike one of the quotes we use in our company is make your backyard look pretty before you take on make the world look pretty.How do you make that backyard for that audience look pretty in these different areas before making the world trying to take over the world in one big fellow swoop?
Interesting.So you would say like only do the small ones.
I think it's becoming much more costefficient and more effective.
And when you when you say small ones, do you say under 5,000, under,000, under 10,000 or just complete new people who maybe potentially can become the whole creator from scratch for your brand?because I've seen three brands do that.
It could be I think it could be anything.I mean, yeah, I I I it's worth sometimes investing into people, you know, and you know, I think Element got pretty lucky with Andrew Hooverman, frankly, because precoid Andrew was making these podcasts, but he wasn't like big likehe he became big in the last 5 years, right?And so for Element to be tapped into a early creator that fit their vision and their values which is as a company that's the most important thing.What is your vision and your values that you lay out?Then you know even if they're small who to reach out to and be like this person shares my visions and values the people that listen to him probably do too.So there's a direct connection down the line and then you can invest it into a creator whatever whoever it is a podcast creator what that will grow with you and then obviously find success together.
On the flip side if there are smaller creators that you are tapping into let's go with your sleep example and let's break it down a little bit more.Um what's a what's an age group that has bad sleep?
30 and above.
30 and above.Why do they have bad sleep?
Insane amount of stress.Uh not being able to cope up with work.
What kind of work?
Relationships.Just average uh every day they go to office and then come back and they're tired and then
so let's
annoyed.
Let's say it's a
I'm making this up, right?I don't know anything about
it's a a SAS company.
H
because the SAS apocalypse is happening.
You're afraid about your job.So you can't sleep.
Like it jobs.uh as IT jobs and it's very stressful because your job might be on the line going back to the psychological triggers that's an insecurity about your job is that an insecurity about productivity at your job because you feellike you can't do or is it I want to be productive outside of work so that I could start my own thing because I think I have a better opportunity as a backup plan and to be able todo that I need to have good sleep whatever it is
what is that through line that you're creating in the audience you're tapping into and those values that you're sharing initially.And again, I you know, I'm going to repeat the book's name, crossing the chasm, but who is that first tiny audience that is so tied on to your pain points before you go on cross the chasm into thenext audience, next audience, next audience.If you're looking at a product and if you're looking at creators or if you're looking at um an audience that you can link into, exact same thing.What are the pain points that you're sharing with this person that your values and everything align with?And how do you tap into that?And then you if that guy works in SAS, I bet you 20% of the people that follow him on his Instagram probably also work in SAS.They probably work with him.
No, but if he loves the product and he's a influencer at his office,
you just got 20% of his company hooked on your product also.
True.
Now do that again at the next place.Next place.and then company after company after company.
Yeah.Or community after community, whatever it is.
Interesting.You know, you said something I sort of disagree with.You said the large influencer doesn't work as much as the micro ones.
I slightly disagree based on all the data and all the entrepreneurs that I talked to, what I've seen.I think the super large one works and the super small ones.The big and the mid ones are not working.
I agree.You're right.The super big ones have enough of a presence that it's an impact.
Yes.
Because they're so big.Yes.Right.
But Kim So I'll use Kim Kardashian as an example.
Yeah.And also like I was the super Yeah.Go ahead.Actually complete it and then I'll tell you the thought.
Okay.
Yeah.Yeah.Kim Kardashian.Yeah.Go ahead.
There's a certain type of influencer and how they talk about your product though also, right?Kim Kardashian posted about a product on her stories and we're just like love this you know like what
we did some sales but it wasn't crazy
but if Kim Kardashian is wearing skims to a few
yeah it just so I was coming to exactly that so the super large ones they realize and I'm talking super large ones mean in any and every category if you're talking to the top five people so let's sayif it's podcast and top five podcasters in the world or if It's models and top five models or athletes and top five athletes.So just like top five people of like it's a comedian only the top five comedians.
When you talk to these people if they post once probably it won't work.But if you get them for an advocacy this works much better than anything else.They one large person like let's say Kim Kardashian with skills
and if she's advocating that for next 6 months it's way more powerful than your 500 creators.
100% agree with that.I mean in no world is is a small creator going to be a Kim Kardashian.
Exactly.So like small 100 creators are not going to be competing with the So the super large ones work but they work only when you work in an advocacy level.Yes.
Where they are like you
because it's difficult for me to believe that Kim Kardashian today just like just posted about neuro so she consumes it.But if I see this on an everyday basis randomly and even she was not promoting and I see her and then she's giving it to Kendall and then Kylie and then probably Lewis Hamilton is also and I waslike holy like this
this is a family thing.
They really like it.
They really like it and then like there'll be like millions like me who would go and just go eat it.
So that's a really good point though because if you are a starting entrepreneur you can't get a Kim Kardashian.
Yeah.
But you could probably get someone adjacent to a Kim Kardashian which is what we did.We got David Grutman, um, who's one of the biggest, he is the biggest promoter and in Nightlife in Miami, right?A massive guy and really good friends with Kim and shared Neurogum with Kim.
So now David's talking about it.Kim's talking about it.
If you're following David, you probably follow Kim,
right?If you're following Kim, you probably follow Kylie and you probably follow Lewis Hamilton.And so we work with F1.So we work with Yuki Tonot from F1.there's an adjacency between now F1, Kim Kardashian, David Grutman, how are you creating the web of people because now you're seeing it over and over again to your point and being like, "Oh, something's up, right?"But if you're a small startup just starting out, I guess where do you start?Like I do agree that it's a complete waste of time to go in this like middle section of kind of big influencers maybe like whatever like 2 million followers right
but he could either make a really big splash with like a Mr.Beast person if there's an agency
like Andrew Huberman type
Andrew Hubman but the only caveat I would say to that is to your point who else is connected to that Andrew Hooverman.So it does feel like, oh, I'm hearing this over and over again within my network.
Yeah.Yeah.There has to be some level of trickle down effect
so that you it's more believable.
What's crazy is like I mean I see these people there, you know, they hail Mary into one big activation.They'll pay like $5 million.Like the last $5 million they have to be like, Kim Kardashian, make one post about us.You know, it's like of course that's not going to work.
Yeah.
You know, like what?So you business takes a little bit more thought in that regard where Yeah.how what are all the connecting factors from your product, your values, the people you work with, the people they work with for it to all come together?M
you know I was speaking to one of the tech giant uh CEO and I was asking that person like why do you in today's world still get like these large Hollywood or Bollywood stars to promote your stuff becauseit just makes no sense because I would think that there are no just there are no conversions like like I don't think last time you you saw like a Tom Cruz selling something and then you bought it likeright like you don't I was like why do you still need them then Because every airport you go to, every driveway you get, there is some big star with like some big perfume or like some big
Yeah.I was who is buying Johnny Depp's per cologne.
Exactly.So I asked that person like why do you still do it?Because they're very big on influencer.They're very big on micro communities and they're big on these large in every country they have this large star, right?and he said something very interesting to me and since then I don't know if it really works or not but I think it makes sense.He's like if you get a big star and let's say you spend like $5 million to get them and if you only have $5 million and you get them, it's never going to work out.
Mhm.
So you need to get them for $5 million and then you need another $5 million to make a noise that you got them and then you get the results.I don't see.
So, this is what Celsius did.This is probably secret information, but whatever.You like secrets.
I love it.This podcast um Celsius would spend 4x the amount that the influencer cost to activate that influencer.
So, exactly to that point, you get a Lewis Hamilton for let's say like whatever $2 million, they would spend $8 million on F1 sponsorship, Lewis Hamilton marketing, like advert, whatever it is.So yeah, makes you h you
you just partnering with Lewis Hamilton.
The conversation shifts to community, brand feeling, and how Neuro creates experiences that make creators feel part of something. Kent outlines the brand's core values, including science-backed trust, approachability, humility, and kaizen.
Yeah.People aren't going to be like, oh, like unless you're a super fan,
which is probably still very small.Like
you need to make sure everyone knows about the fact.
Okay.There was another thing you said.You build this community of all these people all all the creators they come on the discord and then they stay in your community and all of that.How do you build a community?How do you keep them incentivized enough?Because money for sure is not the only thing.You have to create a feeling that this is their brand and they love you.
So how do you create that?What are the things that you do in a community?What are the essent essential things that you create with your people?That is the power of brand and a lot of people forego brand just for transactional things.So like you know I'm trying to think of like companies that um existed in like the last 10 years that were big but they didn't build the brand component to it.Like you could think about uh you walk down a supplement aisle at CVS, you see all those uh supplements that sell B6 and B12 and it has some value, but there's nothing like a feelingwise associated behind it.
Yeah.For us, here's an example of something we did 2 weeks ago for our sour launch.We rented out an entire back area of a go-kart space and we invited 50 influencers to come go-kart racing with us because it's something that's on the go.You know, you have to be focused while you're driving.And then all those people, by the way, we didn't pay them to come.You know, it's just a fun little event,
but they sure as hell told everyone else about how cool this event was.And if you are and we target college campuses and things like that as well because there's a perfect product for college students.If you are tapping in and providing value outside of the product in terms of a social factor, a cool factor, um obviously a benefit factor for school and performance, then you have to make sure that your brand isconveying that from an approachability level.like I feel like I'm a part of this brand because whatever the way they present themselves and you know one of the things I say uh to the team a lot and to other people and I'll say tomy son once he's old enough is there's this goes for I think human beings in general like what are what are the factors that make you trust someone that makes you want to follow them they have values that
are crystal clear like you know exactly what their values And then uh uh damn, how do I say this in a way?Um and then they have I'm just I'm just going to say it the way it's in my head.Okay.Like and as a as a man, okay, like if I think about like if I want my boy to be a man, what are his values?And does he have the balls to stand behind his values?
That's what being a man is.
Yeah.Am I and that's what being a leader is or that's what being whatever the equivalent for a woman is you know like a a female leader is like what are your values and you stand behind those values
but how do you create the that feeling
in other people as well because you do that as a brand you have value system and you're standing behind it and you want to create this feeling and you stand by every word that you do
right
how do you create that feeling for the creator who's promoting you So, similar to this, those values, the way we construct our experiences, whether it's this K1 speed event that I'm going to use because it's the most recentone,
go-karting, if you look at the pictures that we wrapped, the go-karts, we had the type of influencers that came are all very similar fitness style influencers,
right?
The way we talk about our product, the way we made it fun but also competitive.you know, these even the creators in the Miami house, like it wasn't just about money.It was about our top creators that are motivated as hell.They're all very similar like fitness influencers.Like once they start talking to each other and once they start identifying subconsciously actually even when you go from L1 to L7 we kind of have an understanding of who's going to be an L7 creator because those arethe people that represent our brand the best like of course because the values the events those things that we talk the way we talk about the product on a daily basis and how it's being used and the otherbigger influencers ers that talk about it like the whoever like Mitchell Hooper is an example world's strongest man like or Andrew Schultz comedian who's very sharp Joe Rogan it all like subconsciously almost stacks up to represent someone that's
confident but yet has humility and is allowed to have fun
and then that trickles down into how the brand is which trickles down in how the creators are.That's how all of our events are.The type of people they meet are exactly like that.Also, like everything you're constructing is interconnected is one thing.
Yeah.Like we're never going to do something that's so bizarre like whatever.Maybe a bizarre thing that would be but it'll still be fun, competitive, has humility behind it, you know?It's like it's still the same values no matter what it is.
Interesting.So I was going to ask you the three elements of building a brand but I'm going to ask you first value system because you use that too much and I think that's going to be important for brand.
Tell me three value the three values that you as a brand stand for and how did you find that and why only those three values.
So there's there's two there's our external facing and our inter internal facing.
So when we build out our brand book we talked about tone of voice.
Mhm.Um, and the type of, if I were to think of like a type of person that represents our brand very well,
I wouldn't say it's really an Andrew Huberman, right, who's sciencebacked, obviously very, very intelligent, but more on the dry side.Obviously, like he he doesn't like joke around too much.
Yeah.But on the flip side, you look at someone like a Bill Nye the Science Guy or like Adam Savage from Mythbusters,
they have the and we actually have a really sick collaboration happening next year with uh this company called Colossal um and might get some of those people involved.But there is a trust factor because of the science and everything that and the intelligence that they promote, but they obviously make it approachable and fun.Mhm.
So for us, are we sciencebacked yet in uh building a sense of approachability in our product?
Science yet fun.
Science yet fun.And then again the humility component is really big which goes
what do you mean by humility?
Are you not overpromising?Like we don't overpromise that this is going to fix your whatever Alzheimer's or whatever.You know, there's like a lot of like that doctor.
Yeah.Like we're not we're we're more Bill Nye than the doctor
in a sense.You know, we're um we're not promising these crazy things.And in the products that we create down the line with innovation, we are never going to be creating something that promises to be a pharmaceutical level product.That's why we're not getting into GLP1s and this and that like right.But we will always be a product.And I think actually a lot of brands go down that path and end up ruining their brand because they deteriorate what built them in the first place.Are we sciencebacked?Are we approachable?And do we have the humility to understand that we live in that space?
Interesting.
And then we tie that back to internal values of leadership.Do we have calm leadership?Because if we're a brand that has fun, we should always be able to solve any problem with a smile on our face.
Yeah.
Um, sorry.Oh.Oh, humility.Yeah.Calm leadership.Humility.Do all of us, no matter what position we're in, understand that we call it servant leadership, but like we serve others.Everyone at every level serves other,
right?
That comes from a Japanese root.So,
it is.And the last one, funny enough, is we have multiple values, but like these are the three important uh Kaizen.
Have you heard that one?
Constant improvement.Yeah.
Constant progress over perfection.It's like which to me is this product as well.
Okay.I I ruined it for you for audience for somebody who's who doesn't know about Kaizen, just go ahead and tell.
So Kaizen, funny enough, Trader Joe's, which is a big retailer here too, uh Kaizen is one of their mantras as well.It is progress over perfection.like to improve every single day versus chasing perfection is a better mantra for life because there is no such thing as perfection and you know even the great leaders like Napoleon said it uh Mark Zuckerberg also says ityou know like moving fast is better than taking all your time to create something that's perfect
because things change in the process like there's no such thing as perfect but you can always improve yourself.In fact, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're someone that is trying to become a better version of yourself every single day, Kaizen should just be in your core.Nice.So, values internal and external.We build that.
Kent explains what a brand really is and how Neuro's brand book defines tone, visual language, and communication. He also describes how audience feedback and event experiences shape the brand over time.
Okay.Value system for us is also important.When we started podcast, I think that's one of the most important thing for any podcaster as well that they should have.
Yeah.They should have a very strong value system because at one point you're going to expand your podcast into multiple areas like how no matter what you start as you're eventually you'll become much more bigger and different and wider.So you need to have a very strict value system and for us that is so from day one we started with how the most world's most extraordinary minds think
and we stay with that no matter what we do no matter who we call no matter how big small controversial uh educator non-education expert whatever we stick to this one value system and that's why I think the audiencehas helped us go from one territory to another from one country to another and now it's helping.So value system is so so goddamn important.And then we have a very important thing called the notto-do list.
H I love that.
That is like the most important for us.Yeah.Like we we say this internally that
here are like five things we will never do
and then we will do everything else.
Yeah.Yeah.Like so so the five things that we never do is so you know the top five categories in content that works all around the world.
We don't do any of that.
Oh really?
The the categories which get
what are those?Yeah.What are those categories?
So I'll tell you the categories which get highest views in the world.The top five are number one is horror.
Oh yeah.
Right.Like it gets like true crime horror.
Yeah.Like I I don't know what like 1 2 3 4 5 6 like I I'm just messing up the priority order depending on the country but these these five stay for majority countries they stay as it is rightsome in some countries it can be one some be four but these five will be there so first is horror
mhm
second is religion and devotion
which is very very very strong
then there's entertainment and gossip
which is big
these are so obvious Yeah.Then sex and erotic conversations, right?Which is the soft pawn, the sex and erotic conversation.And then the fifth is astrology.
Of course, man.And which is similar to religion, right?
These five you look at anyone if you in any country the top five creators Mhm.
they will fall into at least like at least three or four of them will fall into one of these category.
That's crazy.I'd believe it though.It's so when you say it, it's so obvious.
Yes.
And I see why.I know why.You know,
it's crazy.
Yeah.So, and so we made a list that we will never do this.These are the five things we don't touch at all.Like we would even if we touch sometimes we touch sex as a subject, but we do it from a point of education.
Yeah.
We never do like some random erotic conversation.We will never do it.
I can't even imagine that dude.Like
don't start now.Okay, coming back you said you use a word called brand book.
Yes.
Right.First tell me what are the three elements of brand and then help me build a brand book for the entrepreneurs.What are these five things which are which should be there in a brand book?But before we go there tell me what is a brand?
Uh you said community experience should I consider that as an element of brand?Um, yeah.Well, so I I'll talk about a brand from an a different perspective.
From a I'll say it in two ways.I'll I'll talk about it from what like a typical brand is.It is a visual language of a product, right?Like there's a visual language of a product that you are communicating that has underlying tone, values, and uh communication mechanisms.So let's say like for us
um
tone values and
uh communication like me mechanisms like that's what a brand is we are communicating energy and focus is the most important thing we are a gum packet so but with supplements so we talk about
um how what ingredients are in here we are laid out like this all the time so even if you look at our different packaging levels you can see that there is a design format that So that's the visuallanguage.
There is a tone of voice.So if you look at all of our advertising, the way we talk on the back of the pack, even here, we there is a way that we speak in the packaging.Obviously, this doesn't really have it.Always sciencebacked.We've got good energy.That is the tone of voice.And then from there, how do you take that tone of voice and communicate it out into all the marketing material?So now you have a way of expanding it.
So communication, tone of voice and
uh visual language.
So how do you present yourself?How how do you vis visually
and then you just stick by it forever.
Yeah.So that's that's the foundation.There's that's the architecture right of what and then from there
that's where marketing and all those things get really exciting innovation because you have to stick within those confines of an architecture and values and ideas and tone of voice and build from that
okay
it's your bible like we we call it a brand bible more than a brand book but I don't want to bring religion into this um if from there though the other way to look at a brand
is audience.So how does the audience dictate how your brand is being perceived is another thing.So if you start off with especially like a creator community and you're realizing that the language that's being used is around confidence let's say which I hear a lot with our product then how are you building an effectivefeedback loop to adjust your values and brands but not too much because like that's when you get out of hand to reformat recreate and then that's why many brands like every 10 years or so, they relaunch with anew brand book.You know, um what are the experiences that you want people to have?Like we were talking about that experience still fits within this framework, the tone of voice, but you know, a brand book's not going to tell you how a person feels or how they should feel.Like you have to create that.
Yeah.
And then put it into your brand book.But like that feel like for us, we want people to everyone at one of our experiences should feel approachable.So everyone's friends with each other cuz that amplifies the fun
cuz there's no like the aspirational egoistic Top Gun level.None of that.
Everyone's Everyone hangs out.Everyone chill place.
It's a chill place.VIP section and a table for like important people.
Never.Never.And I honestly will like we do with our creators obviously, but once they get there, the experience is they're all the same.Um, yeah, it's not a Tony Robbins conference that you're going to.It's a neuro conference.So, is there approachability?Is there fun?Like, you know, is there energy and excitement?It should like it should constantly be high energy.Um like all these things is a feeling that when I listen to your podcast what is that feeling I want to get when I go to an event of your sort like those are things I think should alsobe embedded into a brand book that typically is is not
okay it becomes ton of voice let's do one by one I think we jumped in right here so let's pick up first as feeling okay
This section focuses on how packaging and language create trust without saying it directly. Kent explains the importance of transparency, attention to detail, and a consistent rhythm in how the brand speaks.
sure
so feeling in your brand book what is the feeling that you want your audience or your customers to feel when they touch or see or consume your product.Trust.So let's say from a physical st.So let's start off with like the the original three, right?
Tone of voice, communication, visual language.
Um visual language.I pick up a piece of gum or a pickup pack.Even down at the operational level and the way we design our packaging, there's a nice gloss on this.This is embossed so it feels premium.And it's not premium just because it looks nice.It's premium because we use premium ingredients that all work together to create a trust uh trustable reliable product.
So you don't we don't say any of those things on the packaging.It's like yeah the most reliable energy like you're not writing that.But through the visual language you are able to create that.What is the most important thing that I should put in my packaging so that it it screams trust without even saying it?Because there has to be some magic.Is it negative space?
Is it something else?
Transparency.
Well, it depends cuz I I think it depends on the the brand obviously as well.
What's for you so that we know
for us we talk about transparency.So the ingredients are right on the front.
Okay.
Energy and focus.you know exactly what you're going to get when you have the product
of the brand.
This is mechanical, but when I look at our product and I touch it and I'm like, "Wow."Like, and I look at another crappy piece of gum that doesn't have all these things, you know, this costs us like a penny to even
like see how it's like a little
raised.Yeah.Yeah.Like you can't tell if you're just looking at it, but then you pick it up and you're just like, whoa, they're like even that little detail, right?
Yeah.
Like you know that there's like a these guys put in attention to detail even because of something like that.You see like this is shiny a little bit also.
Like those little things add to the trust, the reliability,
the way the visual language of the product comes out.Nice.So, so if you want to create a visual language which has where you want people to trust you, the three things you need to be very mindful about.How are you being transparent?How are you showing them that you have uh your entire brand runs around attention to detail and then what is a simple promise in two or three words.
Yes,
these are like three very important things.If this is sitting on a retail shelf and you're just like,
can I trust it?
Yeah.Can I trust it?And like if I look at it, I know exactly what it does.
Mhm.
Boom.I know energy and focus.Boom.It's so obvious.
Yeah.True.
I know exactly what it does.
I know exactly what I'm going to get.I know exactly what I get.And I look at it, it's like, oh, it's energy and focus because of the caffeine, although that's great.That's a great benefit.Spearmint.That's a great flavor, you know.Oh, and now I picked it up.Wow.Like this is really nice packaging.
Interesting.Okay.Right.all those things.So, and subtle things but obviously.
Okay.So, that's that's visual language is first in the brand book in brand bible as you say.
Mhm.
Then second is feeling.
The feeling you want is approachable energy and what else?
Approachable.Um well when I say energy the we're talking about community experiences.But if we go back to the tone of voice and the
Okay, let's go tone of voice first.The way we talk about our product is never overly scientific.And I could talk overly I was a neuroscience major so I could talk, you know, like the brain all day.But if we're going back and I'm not trying to confuse someone to talk about, oh, okay, like uh you blockad a scene and this is how when I start talking like that to someone, dude, we're a gum.
Like you know, at the end of the day, we're a gum and a mint.It's has to have that approachability but a reliability on the trust and we could talk about uh the science components the different pathways that this is affecting how caffeine blocks adenosine receptors so that's how you don't feel tiredyou know elenine allows you to curb the the and balance out the caffeine you know cuz the compounds amino acid compounds found in matcha and green tea you can dive in and look at that if you want toon on our website and that's why we have the clinical trials but we don't lead with the clinical trials.We lead with the approachability, the fun, the transparency that our product has and then if they want to search more into it,
they realize like, oh wow, there's all these things
that allow me to trust it.
Interesting.Nice.Okay, so that's tone of voice.
Tone of voice.And again with tone of voice, the way we do it is like if there's a celebrity that uh you can if your product is a celebrity, what kind of celebrity would it be?And we talk about childish Gambino, you know, he's
one of the most talented people, plays music, comedy, acts, everything, but it's still like a funny guy compared to like uh Jared Leto or something, you know, who's so serious,
although he's very talented.
That's a good question to ask.I I love that question.If your product was a celebrity, which celebrity would it be?
Yeah.
Who would it be for you?You're already a celebrity.
No, no, no, no, not not yet.
Wow, that's a tough question, dude.
Yeah,
that is that's a good question though.I like it.I'm going to think the instant name that comes in my head is Oprah.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, like
do you give free giveaways to everyone?Yeah, I really want for my podcast.If let's say if my podcast has a brand and if we wanted to be a celebrity, which celebrity would it be?I think Oprah would top that.
Oprah's a good one.
But but I want to go deeper and think more like this is just top of my head because she's an inspiration.So I look up to her
and it's easy to start associating.It's like, okay, what would Oprah do?
Yeah.Yeah.And like what wouldn't she do?You know, there's a bunch of things that hopefully she doesn't do, but uh it's easy to start building a tone of voice for your brand.Be like, I'm gonna It needs to be like this person, you know, and obviously I represent the brand in a way.
Um I hopefully I don't act like a overly scientific you know.
So, there's that component.And then finally um so visual language, tone of voice um and then uh what was the last thing I say?Um
visual language, tone of voice and communication but communication.
Oh communication.Yeah.Um is part of it's part of tone of voice.Yeah.And the visual language.
Okay.So in the brand book there has to be visual language.There has to be tone of voice.There has to be a feeling defined.What feeling?
What else needs to be there in the brand book?Um so in a typical brand book even if you if you start with those three it starts getting broken down even more concretely.
So with any new product launch it is are these the fonts you are using you should always be using the same fonts.
Okay
you know is there for us we even talk about the cadence of how we speak.So, are we talking in short sentences?This is this, this is this, or are we talking in short sentence, long?Is there a rhythm to the words, right?In how you're speaking.
Nice.
Because I mean, you have a way you speak.I have a way I speak.And funny enough, the way you speak defines a person.True.
Right.And that's communication.So, is there a way that you're speaking even in Oh, the rhythm of how you communicate.That's new.So rhythm of sentences and how you speak and what kind of language you
pretty fascinating you and what is yours like is it like short sentences?
No, I mean it's a it's approachability.So it's a combination of very strong statements that we would make but then like an approachable like longer sent like there's we never make it like the reason we don't use short sentences like is that becomes a statementevery single time and some companies do that you know because it works but and it's not overly flourishy.We're not using big bombastic words and because then there's no trust.you're covering it up with.
But is there a balance between simple words that are effective and approachable, but statements when you need to make the statement?So, it's an actual hit.
That's a balance in language.
It's like you do headline and then you do the explainer,
headline, small explainer, explainer.That's your rhythm.
Kent discusses the role of community events, especially smaller gatherings that create tighter brand loyalty. He compares them with larger activations and explains how brands can even recoup event costs through partnerships.
So, talk to me about community events.You were talking about it.What do you prefer?the large community event once a year or like bunch of small ones or like mid-level two or three a year.That's it.
Yeah, we do like I think we do one every other month.So like six six a year.So it's kind of a lot a lot
but sometimes it's big, sometimes it's small.I mean we do maybe we even do more.Like we'll sponsor like a Pilates event.So the entire Pilates studio is Neurogum, you know.Um that's a big one.Every other brand is doing this pilate thing.I know it's I don't know.Like you do it so you should know.Well, I don't do Pilates like we do it.
No, but like you sponsor Pilate brand, right?The Pilate is is really picked up.
It's picked up like crazy.
It It has really picked up
Pilates and pickle ball.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.Pilates is big.Pickle ball is like really big right now.
And even paddle in a lot of padd.
Yes.Exactly.But with uh Pilates, I think it's not it's hard if you've ever done Pilates before.
Yeah, I've done that.I've tried to do it.
Oh, man.
Like you're shaking.
Yeah.I thought it was going to be so easy because there just bunch of people just on the reformer.I was like, "Yeah, I'm going to do it."
You're just like,
I remember like 18 minutes in 18 minutes.I was like this.I was like, "Please."I guess it requires focus.I mean, with our mark, I have to ask our marketing team, but Pilates is great though because And same with pickle ball and podel.Um, tennis is pretty hard.Pickle ball's not as hard.Pickle ball is fun.Pickle ball's easy.It's easy to play as long as you're not playing against pros, but it's easy to play.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think it's the same with like Pilates.Pilates is in CrossFit, but it's still hard.
Yeah.
Like there's like an accessibility to it.Like in a group class, if you go for the beginner ones, you can get through it.
Yeah.
So that's what it is.But if you do like one-on-one and you really want to focus on yourself, it's it can get brutal.Yeah.
But but coming back to Pilates, like why every brand is partnering with Pilate clubs, Pilate uh sessions, organizing these Pilate communities.I see this like everywhere.
I think Aloe started this and then now everybody does.
I know.Genius Aloe.I think at its core, it is a group of people that are passionate about one thing.People, if you go into a Pilates class, you've seen this.They love Pilates and they'll talk about Pilates and they all hang out with each other with their Pilates and their socks, their special socks that they have.
And there's this Pilates personality.
Yeah, there's a Pilates personality.And if you're thinking about like um a cult of a brand and like being able to tap into uh different cults, like I'm using the word cult in like a very uh superficial way, but
um you tap into a community of people that are talking to each other.If one Pilates person is like, "I got through my class thanks to Neurogum."That other housewife that you know is also trying to get through a class, we'll probably be like, "Oh, I should probably chew gum, too."
You know, you could start saying that versus, you know, I think about like like F1 has a cool factor to it, but I don't know if that was like the right place for us to activate.
Why?because it's such an independent sport and if I think about pickle ball or pilates or things where you're just like oh this I want to get better at it and what's what allows me to get better at itthat when you have people sh people like what's like a brand that activates at F1 you know I'm trying to think of another brand like Red Bull I guess but Red Bull is all about individual performance and extremeperformance
and for That's that's not that's not really us, you know.It's not really extreme performance.It's finding the best version of yourself.That that's us, you know, at any given moment.We're in your pocket so you could be the best version of yourself in that moment, you know.It's not I'm going to go jump off a cliff in a squirrel suit.Interesting.So, you wouldn't go partner with an extreme athlete, but you will partner with someone like an everyday Joe who is who's in a good shape and wants to get in a better shape.that person who's trying every day, feel good factor, loving it.
Yeah.
And has a balanced life.Is that what your ideal type is?
Yeah.Like I'm, you know, if I were to break it down, like we wouldn't sponsor like we actually got our start in CrossFit, funny enough,
but I wouldn't go back and sponsor CrossFit cuz those it's a little too extreme.It's people it's so not accessible.Like will you sponsor Hyrox?But Hy Rocks is something I would sponsor because it's a little bit more accessible and easier to do than CrossFit without that
almost like extremity in what people push themselves to.like we would sponsor, you know, I guess like to think about this, this there's actually a pretty big unlock for me even having this conversation right now uh that I'll bring up at the offsite, but what is anenvironment where your product did enough for a person that they're willing to share with the community that they're a part of?And if it's an F1 driver, even if an F1 driver shares it with their community, there's only like 12 F1 drivers, like what is that community?It's like it's so aspirational
that
it doesn't make sense, you know?You know, there's a company called Ladder that do you remember Ladder?
No.
It was a supplement company that had LeBron James, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Serena Williams, like the top athletes in the world.Mecca.
Yeah.
It failed like three months after launch.
No way.
Yeah.Because the No one's going to be a LeBron James.
No one's like it's there was a pop, but then they anchored so heavily into these elite athletes.These elite athletes are that is such a small tam of audience members that it's like I'm going to be the LeBron, you know, I'm going to be the next this.And then they forgot about the community.they forgot about like the everyday person and how it impacts their life in a good way.
This is such a good insight that your brand should be for communities where there's a sharable value or a sharable essence and there's hope that we can become part of this community.
No,
if there is no hope, no way to become part of this community and there's no sharable essence, then probably your brand Yeah.Like
you have like 10 people using it.
Yes.That's a good insight.I'm going to I'm I'm stealing.
Take it.Take it.That's yours.
I'm stealing it.I'm stealing it because
I forgot what I even said.So now it's yours.
Okay.But this is fun.All right.Let's get back to the community thing.
So you said community events.Why would you do smaller community events and not just like one large event?
I think it goes back to the micro influencer.
Would you do like one large event as well?We would and we do from time to time like larger events but I think there's diminishing returns depending on the size of event that you do.Okay.
So you could get a lot of people like we do these like big college events you know with uh our partners at Lion Leap.So like a thousand people will come into a bar and it's neurothemed and whatever but are those people really there for you or are they there for a cool event that you're paying for?But wouldn't that help the brand just like you become a cool brand or cool event where everybody wants to get an access but nobody can or maybe like they're waiting for the next
and we did something like that in New York as well where it was like a bigger event and like there was limited access there were cool people there you know we brought our celebrity partners and stuff in
but I think it's easy to find something that feels like the cool party to go to that night that's sponsored by the thing but you the the essence of the brand gets lost.
It just becomes an event.
But if it's a tight community like this K1 thing with 50 people, 60 people, they're all talking to each other within uh under the roof of Neuro.So obviously the main thing for all these people here, the common denominator is Neuro
versus a big event, the common denominator is a cool party.
Yeah.Like everyone's college is going, so I want to go.
Yeah.Yeah.Exactly.It'll go many head on.
And I think a lot of people get lost in the sauce with that a little bit.I'm trying to think of like other brands that still do big events.And I I only like the Fortune50 companies that I know do do that, you know.
So here's a question on that.So let's say there are two events, right?One event which is like the 50, 100, 200 people max.You're not going to scale it beyond that because you want to create tight-knit community.
Yeah.
Right.And one is thousand people, 2,000 people, 3,000 people like big large event.You take like the big creator house and then throw a big party and everybody's there, everybody's posting pictures, stuff like that.Two completely different events.What will give you more number of eyeballs and cool factor on social and digital content point of view which will help your brand doing these smaller events because at the price of that one event probably you can dofive of these events
or like 10 of these events.I'll say a little hack that we do also though because it's not it's not binary like big events actually do work sometimes because it depends on who's coming to the event and how you want to show off, right?
Okay.
So, at Expo West, Doodles did a great job.They just got sold to Borilla, but they did a massive they did the biggest party at Expo West because they knew retailers were going to come, they knew influencers were come, and they knew everyone at Expo West wasgoing to come to that event because that was the cool event for everyone to go to.And then they made an impact to those retailers to be like this is the type of stuff that we do.This is how big we go.And so they got a bunch of sales because of that and places to go into.They did also something very genius which um they charged other brands.They set up the event.They charged other brands to activate alongside them.So they made their money back from other from other brands sponsoring that event.
No, I didn't.
But they were the main sponsor.So, they were the main sponsor for this event,
okay?
They built this huge thing
and the event is by them.
The event is by them.
Okay.
But they got 10 other brands to pay them like $10,000, $20,000 to activate their products
in that space.
It's Yeah,
it's fine.Make the money back.
So, they made the money back by by going that big.And, you know, we were talking about that internally, too, where like so many other brands donate product to us um for our partnerships when we activate.So it makes it a lot more interesting that if we throw something big enough, we just charge other brands probably to activate alongside us, but it's still a neuro event
that just get free goodies for.So that's a very costefficient way to get eyeballs while also leveraging the fact that you invested into this really massive hop of an event, right?
The conversation explores which communities are best for future brand growth, including corporate campuses, wellness spaces, and run clubs. Kent emphasizes finding communities with shared identity, trust, and a visible feeling that matches the product.
But on the flip side, a Pilates studio, a smaller community, all those things is everything we talked about.That's a community of people under the common denominator of neuro talking about your product, experiencing this shared thing together that then goes out and will always remember that oh that neuropilates thing was great.Interesting.So now that you talk about this community, give me three communities to tap into the smaller communities for a new brand for 2027 which are going to become a trend or which are already becoming trend and they're underratedand underpriced attention.You can get them
like Pilates is big now.I don't want to use Pilates.
Yeah.Yeah.
Like everybody knows the Pilates play.
What kind of brand?What kind of brand?
Any
a performance brand?
Yeah.Let's say CPG brand,
performance brand.Okay.Let's build anti-performance brand like anti energy brand.Let's build a calm brand.
Okay.Okay.A calm brand.Let's let's say a calm brand because you're so stressed out.Let's go back with the sleep thing, but not for sleep.It's like for
calm.Yeah.Like there's so much stress in the world.Declutter
engineers.Uh, are you able to get into corporate campuses, corporate cafeterias?Like I have friends brands that have gone in, they work with there's distributors in the United States like canteen, PFG that work with Twitter offices or ex offices, uh, meta offices and things like that and just sell intothose cafeterias.That is an ecosystem of people that are working 24/7 and they go to the cafeteria and they pick up your brand every single day.I think that is a huge opportunity for a lot of brands if you could break into that.
Interesting.
Because those are people that are stressed out also.
Yeah.The cool brands.The cool brands.Yeah.So that's one like so something like that corporate campuses and with the AI revolution are you able to tap into budding entrepreneurs and AI engineers that um if it's a com product especially like those are the people thatit's the easiest way to get uh the word out because you're diving into a budding industry.
Um are there other uh ecosystems that I've seen that are pretty interesting right now?
Yeah.Which are budding?So you said cool campuses, college, corporate hustle, cool startups, that gang.I love that idea by the way.
Yeah.
Love it,
right?Like it's because they're already in that environment
and they're high paying audiences that that's another essence.They're high.
These are the guys who talk a lot more.These are like close-knit community on if two managers or two leaders start drinking, everybody worships their leaders.So everybody starts doing it as a cult-like behavior as well.I love this.This a great
There's another one.So running has become really really big again.But I'm going to take a step back.It's not the running.People aren't drinking alcohol anymore.
Yeah.
But people are people.They still want to feel something.They still want to kind of like get high on something, you know, like whatever it is.So is there spaces that people can enjoy a social lubricant in some way or even if it's feeling if it's a calm product where they're feeling calm like retreats like there now there's like wellness retreats are getting reallyreally big um morning like for a product like Neuro we do like Diplo run club where it's a morning event that starts at 7:00 a.m.And then Diplo has uh DJ set at 10.So no one's drinking but they still want to feel energy.So they take something like Neuroga.
But for that that makes a great for energy brand, not for the calm brand.
Yeah.But for a combrand, a wellness retreat is perfect.So have you seen these?Like there's like these week-long retreats now where um you put your phone away like you it's called digital detox.
Yeah.But those are the people they're drinking like peas and like
before product.But if it's a calm product,
is that the space where it's like if I really want to stress
or that's maybe once they come back into reality, you know, we're just brainstorming right now too, right?
So it's like
so wellness retreats, wellness community.It's any environment.And if there's like a third one, you know, like like the the through line with all these, by the way, is every you know, there's the cult of Apple.The there's the word cult that's like gets used.We were even you like they're like the cult leader of a corporate campus.If you know, whatever the the boss is, if Jensen Wang is doing something, eating fried chicken, you're probably going to go every Yeah.Right.It's like those are the ecosystems you tap into in a running club.If Diplo starts a run club and everyone goes to see him as a DJ and he's throwing your like there's videos of him throwing neurogum into the crowd, you know, like everyone's chewing neurogum there.
Like
what's the environment?I would say that there's there's almost like a cultlike following that's already built in and you could get that one person.All you need to do is just tap into that one person to get everyone else involved.Yeah.But where is that cult?like you the wellness cult will be there corporate cult cult what's the third cult I know what's the third cult what is becoming which is a which is small community which you see becoming big
h
I mean I think I actually think with well I I don't know it's that's a good question like cuz there's so many there's so many micro communities I think about like podcast communities too like when people are listeningto you.I I use the word again I'm using the word cult in a specific very specific way but why does your audience listen to you because and why would brands work with you right you've already built trust by theaudience you it goes back to the brand values you built all these things where your audience trusts you so if I'm working not even as like an experiential event like if we take a step back from events butgo back into people to tap into Who is the most reliable voice that already has an audience that trusts them like crazy that allows that trust to be translated to their audience?
And I think that's that's a framework to think about just in general whatever it is for experiences, marketing, whatever.I'm now thinking I'm thinking like which can be who is this person who's built this trust is underrated right now.That's a goal in mind.
Who who who do you have in mind?
I don't I don't have anyone in mind.Podcast is pretty known.Creator armies is pretty known.
Uh like corporate was good.Like that's a good example.That's something underrated like engineers specifically very niche uh very strong run clubs is becoming popular so I would still say
run clubs are run club you know everybody knows now and then run club is becoming a thing
you know what's funny like a lot of people are sponsoring pickle ball but pickle ball has not done well for brands
because when I go play pickle ball with my friend I'm not thinking of a brand when I play you know it's just like a thing I go to the tennis court to do.
Yeah.It It's super competitive.So, like with friends, so it's you're not thinking about brands.
Yeah.
So, it has to be an ecosystem that's not And that's why I didn't say something like a pickle ball or like
Yeah.
Um aloe is perfect in Pilates because you can look sexy while you're doing it's like so perfect, right?There is like this visible impact
Yeah.
of what you wear in that environment.So, is there something like that also with your supplement brand?It's not just handing out the drinks, but it is like it goes back to feeling.
Yeah.What is that feeling?Good.That's a question for everyone with their brands to think about.
Like that's that's a good question that h this person who has accumulated trust in a small micro community who is able to create a similar feeling that your brand is trying to create.If you can tap into that,
that's going to be a gold one for you.
And that's a hard question, but hard questions exist because when you crack them, that's when your brand can take off, right?
Yeah.Like there's a reward at the end of the rainbow.
Yeah.
Kent returns to hiring, explaining that trust, humility, and problem-solving matter more than raw experience. He shares the questions he asks in interviews and how he thinks about building a team like a machine with the right gears.
That's it's it's a question worth cracking.
A question worth it's a good one.Okay.Here are last two things I want to touch.Okay.Uh actually three things.
We're gonna go on for two more hours.
Yeah.
Let's go.
Let's go.Okay.The first is hiring because you said the perfect alo girl.I think that's that goes with every brand.
Yeah.
The person who you hire is going to be the perfect neuro guy or the neuro girl.
Like that is the single most
important thing that any brand can do.Like because for us it's like anyone we hire we need to see that do they have figuring out attitude or not.
Yeah.And we've defined figuring out attitude very clearly.
Yeah.
If they don't have then they're not fit for our work workplace.So how do you hire?What is the essential thing?What do you look for people?What are you looking for in the most a bad hire could ruin your business?And everyone knows that.You know, it's like an adage that's been told many times over, but a good hire can obviously transform your business.And the thing with a good hire is it could go at many levels.Obviously, you want the experience.um depending on the level you're hiring for, you want like a certain level of experience that translates into the work that you want.But more important than that is a scorecard of how they fit into the culture and the culture of the people that they're working with directly.So if you're a smaller company, that person better become your best friend, you know, like Ryan, right?
Like Ryan's my brother.So for me and him to be working together as co-founders and building this business, it made sense because the trust and the friendship was already there and we knew that that wasn't going to deteriorate.Phase two, because we're a small company, who are other people that are bought into the vision that have the work ethic that we do that's really to figure things out with you.And problem solving is like the number one value that we look for in every single employee.and why I keep saying humility.I've probably used the word humility like 50 times in this podcast.Even if you're the most experienced person in the world, every company that you work for, every single day of your life even is a different experience.And to solve problems is to be able to adapt.And to be able to adapt is the basis of evolving, of evolution, of evolving as a human being, is evolving as a company.
And so to take a step back and refine everything I just said because I just said a lot.Trust.Is it a person that you have trust in for an experiential level but also a personal level?That's one because you're working alongside them every single day and you don't want them to backstab you.Um two uh is there humility involved?Is this person willing to admit their mistakes so that they could learn from it?And are other people, including myself as like a CEO, not willing to punish people for mistakes just because they made one, but instead turn into a learning experience because you have the humility to be able to
get past it.Which leads into the third thing.Are they a problem solver in that regard?If a mistake or a problem does happen in the business, do we all get together and it's just like like solving a problem should be fun?And in fact, like the way we build our company like you know in the past we used to have really ambitious milestones that we would try to hit and we would try to like do these like AOP annualoperating plan sessions that were like we need to hit these goals this year like because this is how a startup should be growing.If you make your milestones simple enough that you could be able to hit them one, but it's still ambitious, you know, like but there has to be like clear, easily defined, accessible and reachable milestones for any business thateveryone targets.
That's so easy to understand.The morale of the company stays high because those milestones are, you know, it just takes a little bit of work to achieve them.It's a carrot that's dangling far enough away that people are still working because they know that they could grab it and then it creates this great culture of people that are working towards goals that are easy to understand.
So that's that's kind of the framework for hiring and like how you build pro like um what are the problem solving mechanisms for those hires that everyone could work towards.But let's go one step back and help the fellow founders hire better.These are the things that you look for.What are the questions you ask in hiring so that you get to know these things?What's your favorite question to ask?
What do you do for fun?
What?
What do you do for fun?
Why?Why this?
What do you do for fun?
Oh, you're asking me?I'm asking you.I want to see how you answer.
I love watching movies.
Why do you like movies?Like what about movies is it that that you like?
I I go from I have a big range.So I love watching movies because it always surprises me.Sometimes I'll watch like completely senseless action movie that one one person's punching from here and then they're flying out of the shop.
And then sometimes I'll find really in-depth movies where I'm getting inspired or like finding some crack.So I love this range of emotions which makes me more human.That's why I like movies and that's what I do for fun.So now I just learned about you from what you do outside of work that there's a range of emotions like at a human level that you're tapping into when you watch movies which you love because of this thatlike when you ask about just experiences we're not transaction like humans shouldn't be transactional like things are transactional but you know humans shouldn't be transactional rather it is how are you creating an environment for not just yourself butall other employees where the things that we do outside of work, who what we're personally passionate about are able to be utilized to bring new opinions, new thoughts to create a company that's not just we sell product to
make money,
right?
And then that's culture.That's new ideas to solve problems because you could a problem requires different angles to solve.Um, and that is uh ultimately someone that you could trust because you know that they're human.
Interesting.So you would ask let's say
and this is me hiring at a CEO level by the way.So this is me asking those questions.
Let's take a step back actually
because if you're a starting entrepreneur, what are the exact things that you need?Right?someone that's willing to stay up with you because you're just launching a business and that requires an extra level of work.So, what's that personality trait that you're looking for for that person that's driven and ambitious enough to do that more so than experience?Although experience does help.M.And then on top of that, if someone is working so so hard in your communication piece, are you realizing that that person is not going to break and crack under stress and pressure and turn into like the worstemployee you'll ever hire?And there's this book actually the co-founder of RXBar, Jared, um Jared Smith, who's also a great friend of mine, uh recommended when we first started.is a book called who the process to hire fantastic book and it goes through and I recommend everyone read it alongside high output management from the CEO of IBM those are two great books that tie in with each
other.What is the scorecard that you are building from a culture experience um and output model to find the right employee and then with the high output management he talks about the machine.If you are building a machine, a machine could just be all this work and engine cranking um like a big engine that's cranking to create the output.But eventually as a company grows, you want higher output.So you start adding more gears into it.You have to have the understanding through your hiring what those most efficient gears are to get the highest output.And so when you combine those two thought processes together, the scorecard of the culture, the trust, the problem solving, all all that stuff uh and the experience into you as CEO, the vision of what's going to be themost efficient thing, the most important gears to put into your machine to get the best output, you start creating a framework for organization.
You start creating a framework for what you need to hire.and you don't think about gears that don't make sense.
Interesting.Wow.It's a pretty complicated one to actually implement, but it's a great way to start thinking about a framework when you're when you're hiring or trying to build a culture because that scorecard is going to reveal a lot ofthings about you and how you're going to take decisions in your company.
Yeah, exactly.And again, like I like asking the what do you do for fun question because like at my level, I'm like the last Yeah.
interview, right?To me, I just want to know that who we're hiring is a human being at the end of the day.Like someone that's not in there just to do the work because like work's work, but someone who's passionate, cares about the business, brings new insights is leveling everyone else up.So why?So, okay.So, for you to know, it is important for you to know that I watch movies and I enjoy range of emotions because you want to see that I'm not a robot.That's part that's kind of partly it.I mean, a company is made of people
and I want to be hanging out with a bunch of people I like.
Yeah.Like you want to test like can I actually enjoy certain emotions and that I can tell you through what I do for fun.Even if I'm like competitive sports athlete outside, you'll get to know, okay, there's competition, there's compassion, there's empathy for team members, there's this guy knows how to lose, this guy know how to win.And what's also awesome is like and and if the thing you said that was fun is really unique.That's really interesting to me.If it was something that's so different from what everyone else does in like a way that I know is not going to fit.Then when everyone gets together like it's so much more fun.What's crazy is like when everyone gets together when they're in the office they're always talking about work.Like you've been in that environment before, they're always talking about work.But in that moment of work, if there's unique things about people, that unique thing comes into that conversation of work.
And so like the work becomes that much more of a bigger web to pull.It's
it's like cool to see actually when like so many different opinions come into play and then it turns into this like whoa, I never thought like someone's into trapeze or something.Whatever.Who cares?Like like, "Wow, that's how you like think about fear as a trapeze artist.Now you're translating that into your business."Like how I overcome fear to do this thing, right?It's it's in like I'm I'm a creative at that.I I paint murals.I do art, you know.Also, like what makes a good artist to be able to take all your different experiences and distill it down into you and then output it into a visual language.
Nice.
And I think it's the same way with the business.
Nice.
The discussion turns to Neuro's international growth, especially in India. Kent explains how local teams, cultural fit, and strategic partnerships like chess.com and Joe Rogan helped the brand expand quickly.
See, there there's definitely a reason you you're so well thought of and you think about so many little things and so many things in such a deeper level.It's very refreshing and interesting to talk to you.
Thanks.I'm like really happy we did this and that probably is the reason why you're one of these rare brands which is growing globally which is a D2C brand going global is is very rare.It's it's probably unheard of so fast like that's that's another thing because it's difficult.You usually need like a large giant like universe of the world to go global.
No.And they usually mess it up.Yeah, like it's it's very difficult.So how how are you going global so fast so nicely and every country is accepting you?I think well I mean you talked to Ravi and Anna and like them like Anna's awesome like you know these people that we work with and I if there's different cuz I don't know the culture of India obviouslyand you need to work with the localization agency but a lot of localization agencies that you typically tend to work with look at your product they look at your marketing documents and then they're just like okay let's justsell the products into these different areas what Anna and the team and Lubo and all those guys did who like I talk to all the time and they have the same like fun personality.They have so many unique different perspectives um and they bring to the Indian market with Saga and all those guys to to the table is what are all these fun unique things that Neuro is doing in the US
and what is that exact same or similar thing that exists in India that we could tap into.So, you know, they're tapping into like the engineers.Like, we've been talking about that.They're tapping into the engineers.They're doing these like fun pop-up events that tap into that exact same audience like the influencers that they're using or all like that same they carry that same feeling and brand tonality.And if you don't have clarity around and also like I have very hard phone calls with them from time to time, you know, I'm like why the hell are we doing this?This doesn't fit our brand.Because if you lose that essence of the brand, it could be for a different culture and that's fine.But the essence of human beings is still the same
no matter where you go.
Yeah.
And it's the same with the brand.If you lose that essence, then that brand starts turning to this other thing and that's where they fail eventually cuz they're just spending money spending money to try to make something that's not them work.
But I still didn't get like how are you growing like how every country is accepting you because you hire local.That's why
local is it?But there has to be something else which is so unique and global that you're you're able to expand this so fast like why
how is your word or your brand's name is reaching countries before your product.So, I think, you know, I wish it was I wish there was like a formula to it, but you know, like again, like I said at the very beginning of the podcast, um the decisions you make all leadto the synchronicity of timing, which equals luck
and for us, Joe Rogan has a global audience.We partnered chess.com, the founder of chess.com, Danny, loves our product.So, we partner with chess.com.And guess where more people play chess than any other place in the world?India.
India.like so we've had this huge audience in India already.We realized that there was a manufacturing hub that we could create in India that was effective.
So we launched into it.Now our margins are good.Chess.com is big.People listen to Joe Rogan out there.Um that was like a really easy entry point from the big launch thing we were talking about earlier.Like oh how do you make a big splash before you enter into a a country?And then when you back that up with all the little micro influencers that are adjacent to it, now we start growing.And then how do you keep amplifying that?We haven't started with creators yet in India, but we have started with influencers.And that's a start into getting into creators.And now there's already chess.com.How do we blast out to all the chess influencers in the world, you know, like into the Indian market?Like that's already a community we tapped into.That's their Pilates.
Yeah.
Right.
And now what's the next thing?
Yeah.Mental Pilates.Now what's the next thing?And keep going and keep going.
And so we tried to be conscious about the places we we launched.You know, India wasn't really on my list of places to launch.But it like all just made too much sense from the the fact that it's a young developing economy, engineers, uh chess chess being big there.Um the influencers that we use in the US translating to the places over there.Um, so it's it's so funny that again decision and timing equals synchronicity.The synchronicity of all those things that we were doing in the US happened to line up with a great team that we had in India to be able to launch and find success there very very quickly.
And why India?There are so many countries in the world.
Dude, I mean all again all those things.India, dude, India's on the comeup.It's pretty sick like you saw the come up
like
American movie culture there you start seeing like more Indian actors Bollywood is the second biggest like conglome media entertainment conglomerate in the world there are people like um what was his name Khan um like there's some people thathave more followers than like
are you talking about Shadow Khan
Shadow Khan he's like a god you know it's crazy is in India.Yeah.
But like and then again there's so much investment that was going and I actually have investments in India too because the community of all those people that were being outsourced to the United this is getting into econ economicsby the way but um what's so crazy is like 10 years ago all these Indian engineers uh there was a workforce being built out there because they were all outsourced labor into the United States.Now that we've reached this technological revolution that's global, those engineers are leaders in their industry building technological hubs in India which has a lot of resources, a lot of incredible universities with young talent becoming even better engineers anda lot of opportunities because India is going from a third world economy like similar to how China was like 20 30 years ago, with dang it's like it was becoming a third world second world into a first world
economy and I think the that gap of the middle class is creating a lot of um incredible space for people to build innovation technology and things like that
true and I completely agree with everything that you said and more agree I agree more with the part that you said India's young ambitious audience so that's a product like these like make complete sense because The ambition ison the rise like you
you have these you have so many countries which are who are coming back and but the age is not on the side.
Yeah.
The you know the ambition the hustle is not on their side.The income is on their side and they're making more money and they're getting richer and richer but the hustle and ambition and this all innovation wave India is like just getting started.
It's pretty cool man.
Pretty cool.It's the time to be in India and keep building it.
Kent tells the story of the trademark lawsuit that could have bankrupted the company. He explains how Daniel Lubetzky stepped in to help and how that moment became a defining example of entrepreneurial pay-it-forward culture.
Yeah.Yeah.
Here's a question.What's the most expensive mistake you made during your during your neuro career?
So many expense.I mean,
there one mistake that all founders should avoid and you were like I you put in bunch of dollars and then you got like
dude.I'm gonna name a hundred mistakes, man.Like there's so many mistakes.I mean, even going from like certain packaging, you're investing into certain places you're ordering packaging from, um, influencers that you're hiring that do like literally nothing, although they have a huge name.It's like, how does someone with millions of followers not like do generate any money?
Zero links.
But yeah, it's it's mind-blowing.Um, so let me flip that question because this is something I' I've mentioned before and it's um it's a great story
and it's what allowed us to become friends with one of the sharks on Shark Tank.
And go back Daniel Lubetski, founder of Kindar.
It wasn't necessarily a mistake, but um it was a little bit of planning that could have happened with our trademark.Uh we secured it for our category gum and mints everything.Um it was very strong and we went on Shark Tank as Nuro and after we launched you know to us it was very successful like although we didn't get a deal a company owned by someone worth $100 millioncame in and sued us.
Why?
Uh because she she had a company called Neuro Drinks that she was just like you took my name this that I'm worth all this money.Yeah, I'm going to sue you guys into the ground.And Ryan and I I just remember it was like that would have been the most expensive.I mean, it would have bankrupted our company for sure because this person had so much money and we just like we were a startup.
Ryan DM'd Daniel Lubeki on Instagram, who's worth $3 billion by the way.Um, and was like, "Daniel, you said we could come and ask for your help if we ever needed it on the show."Well, this is us asking for help.We're being sued and our company's going to go under unless someone helps us.Janu Lubetski hopped onto that call with that lady and was like, "Look, lady, I'm worth 30x more than you.Like, I know you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars, but I'm literally worth way more than you.Uh, these are my friends.If you don't back off from this lawsuit, like, I will counter sue you.I will back these guys up and I'll run you into the ground."And the lady backed off.No way.Saved our business.Three years later, we go back on Shark Tank and Daniel Levesky invest in us.
Isn't that crazy?
Wow.
Yeah.So, I think it was one of those things where it's not necessarily a mistake.I mean, we could have done the pre-planning and everything, but it was a moment where it would have destroyed our business.
And
there's no mistakes, right?There's no mistakes.Everything's an opportunity to problem solve.That was a moment that we took the opportunity that Daniel said, never close that door, and ask for help.And with that help, we're now the only brand to go back on Shark Tank, who didn't get a deal the first time, get a deal the second time.
But dude, such a kind human being.He's the best.Kind He literally represents the name of his brand.Kind
Exactly.This is values.Incredible value.He was not your friend.He had no no vested interest.He didn't even ask a piece of your business after that.Nothing at all.He didn't use that as a leverage be like, "Hey, I'm going to help nothing.He was an entrepreneur that knew how hard it was to be to build a business.And he came and was just like, "These kids are ambitious, young, they're building something great.I'm not going to let a stupid lawsuit hold them back."
Wow.Pretty cool, right?Very cool.Very good.Um, these are the stories that love I love.This is you in the startup community.You must have heard this a lot.This is what we call pay it forward.
Exactly.
Right.And that's why entrepreneurs help other entrepreneurs so much.And I love this community all around the world.No matter what size you are, you're making like $100,000 or you're making like hundred billion.If you're an entrepreneur saying you've done it all your all by yourself,
you started it.You're the first generation.You know how it is.And you pay it forward.
It's And you know, you don't see that in the
in these large corporate greed joints.They don't help.They
cuz they don't know.
Yeah.Yeah,
they've never had to deal with like Daniel was making his bars in his kitchen, you know, like was going through the struggle wearing the Kind bar suit, running around as a like Yeah, he looks like a serious entrepreneurnow, but he did all the same things we did.
Yeah.
You know,
this is Dude, this is so amazing.
It's cool.
It's the best.Starting a start a business.
Yeah.
People will help you.Trust me.
You the best.It's hard, but it is the most rewarding thing in the world.Yep, it is, man.It's amazing.I I love it.That was such a good story.Ah,
yeah.
So, that wasn't that would have been a costly experiment.
The conversation shifts to the next big brand opportunities, with Kent predicting stress-related products as a major future category. He also discusses digital overload, trust, and emerging opportunities around sleep, hormones, and women in the workforce.
Really costly for you.
And do you know who doesn't care?Actually, like entrepreneurs care and will help you.Lawyers do not care.
They'll be like, "Okay, yeah, we'll help you, but
yeah, give me money."
How much money do you have in your bank?10 million.I can make it work.
Yeah.Yeah.Why do you need to know that?
Nice.Okay.Here's if if an entrepreneur is watching there's someone who want to become an entrepreneur want entrepreneur okay
wants to build a brand don't know in which category where do you think what is the next category or what is this one idea where somebody could build a billion dollar brand next
which do you feel like if you were you if you were building it again and you would have built in this category because it's untapped
I mean there's a boom with AI obviously right now and there's fast sales happening, but I I do think that it's like you're not really building a brand, you know?I do think in the future stress is going to be a very very big thing like we were talking about and we're going to be so digitally trapped.I mean, I have like apps that block my apps like on my phone, you know, so I I try not to be on social media too often, but uh unless I need to.But I think there's going to be a culture of this next generation that's going to want to find fulfillment outside of the digital space.So any product that satisfies that I think will be very very big.I don't know what it is but there is definitely with with every movement there's a counterculture.So there's a way to tap into that counterculture.
So stress and and
cutting down the chaos like just that that kind of like I there's
what form factor what do you think like so you want to you want to solve stress
so there's companies like brick that are doing the like over $und00 million have you heard of brick?
No.What are they doing?It is literally just an attachment to your phone that blocks all your social media and then you put it and then only when you put it on a device like you could access all your social media as muchas you want.So when you're out and about like you're present.
Nice.I like that.
Such a simple idea, you know, but it's crazy.There's like non-s smartphones coming out now.Like I heard college kids are using Nokia phones again because they want to be more present.Like I I think that's going to be a really big especially with AI the the trust on the internet is deteriorating pretty fast.So, where are people going to go find trust now?In person events, between their friends, smaller communities, you know,
how do you tap into that?And I don't know a product.I mean, you know, it could be anything like literally
a gum,
like a gum.Yeah.It could be anything like a drink.But I I think it has to like exist within that like framework for the future if you're thinking it forward or you ride the wave of what exists now you go crazy on AI like it's it's either.
Yeah.Yeah.True.
True.The stress is going to be a big market and usually throughout the history sex, stress, sleep, these are like three biggest markets no matter what you do.
That's never going to change by the way.That's never ever going to change.And any pick up, any body part, any feeling internal or external, you can just think of these three things and make a product.Just play the match the following and play it.
Yeah.
So think about like hair.So hair loss, you can just match like oh because of stress, hair loss, boom.And then
psychological triggers
and then you make something out of it.No,
you want to make let's say lack of sleep then like let's say lack of sleep because of stress because of bad sex because of tessterone up and down whatever like cortisol up and down just stuff like that youcan just play match the following between these three and like any body part and you can build a brand
you know what's so fun
in a new form factor
as an economy becomes more and more uh comfortable in many ways and like we live in a very comfortable econ it's a little stressful now like with political tension But people have the opportunity to think about those thingslike they start thinking more deeply about like how do I better my life in some way.So that's an opportunity like you know I've been talking to my friends about I think perry menopause is really interesting.I'm obviously not a woman, but my wife just gave birth and like I know she's probably going to see it, but all these people, these women, more women got hired into the workforce last year than men did forthe first time in a very, very, very long time in American history.And now there's 35 to 40 45year-old executive females that want to be as ambitious as males, but their biological systems make it kind of hard because they're going through parmenopause.
You know, they're going through like there's just things, right?Like biologically men and women are different.And so I do think there's a major opportunity there for these ambitious women coming into the workforce that are making a real big impact to tap into that community in the same way men got tapped into like maybe10 years prior.
True.True.I also feel on the other side just like ambitious women as a big category and big opportunity for people to build brands.I think there's a big category and big opportunity for male hormones.Nobody talks about there can be a new category to be built.
I agree.I agree.How you feel?Right.
Okay.
Kent answers rapid-fire closing questions about bad advice, sleep, and what he wants to do next. He reflects on the sacrifices of entrepreneurship, his love of the ocean, and the belief that everything was worth it.
Here are the last three questions which I ask everybody.Yeah.There's like oneliners.
So first is
should I be nervous?
No.No.No.These are like the basic ones but I like asking them because it tells me a lot about other person.So I I like it.
What is one advice that nobody should follow?
Um hard work.it.How do I frame it?Um like I'll sleep when I'm dead.That that's a good way to phrase it.I see these entrepreneurs that work themselves to death.You know, they're like sleep is for the week.I was like this, you know,
I was like this till 6 months ago.
And don't you feel better?
Much better.
And you're thinking more clearly.And do you know the most important thing for a leader is this?How your brain works.And when you're sleeping 2 3 4 hours a night, I mean, which I was doing, I was sleeping like I would do this thing called the Superman cycle.I would sleep for literally an hour and a half, force myself to wake up, work for 4 hours, sleep an hour and a half like throughout the day.It was I I killed myself.It was crazy.So, this idea of I'll sleep when I'm dead.I'm going to work my ass off right now and I don't need sleep is advice no one should follow.I mean actually the David Sinclair episode cuz we were talking about it also.Um the I think like the four things stop drinking so much, sleep well and go work out and then uh don't be stressed.
Simple things.
Simple things but that I think is a good mantra for how you could operate at your highest level.
True.True.What is the most extraordinary thing you want to do next?I think there's so we only have one planet to live on and um very unfortunately I think as human beings and with innovation and the beauty of innovation um we destroy a lot of resources to be able toget there.I think there's an incredible opportunity and untapped opportunity with the ocean.how many things are undiscovered with the ocean that I would love to go into, especially as someone that I love spear fishing, you know, sustainable practices to catch fish.Um I think uh I grew up next to the ocean.I love surfing, all those things.It's so the next extraordinary thing that I would love to dive into um one of them is how do we build more sustainable ecosystems leveraging the largest um the largest resource we have which makes up 70% of the
world the ocean.
Nice.What cost did you pay to become the founder of a brand which is one of the fastest growing brands in the world?So, you know, I've never had a W2, like I said, like an employment document.The first after college, my friends got tech jobs.They were making good money.I was sleeping on couches.I was staying in hospitals, you know, I was picking up odd jobs.And through that process, I unfortunately lost friends who didn't like know how to hang out with me during those times, obviously because they were making so much money in tech.Um, it was a blessing in disguise because those friends that I lost during that time period, I realized weren't really true friends though.And then those friends that even who did have those tech jobs who are still like some of my best friends now stuck with the ambitions that we had knowing that like we were doing something great to create what
we're doing.So, um I don't know.I I guess the sacrifices I I didn't really live like a a typical, you know, like I didn't party that much in college because I was fighting all the time as a professional fighter and I was traveling, butthat's like the only world I knew.So, it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like I missed out on anything.Like I lived a great life.After college, I did I wanted to do my own thing.So I did all these things that were stressful and tiring and whatever, but I had so many crazy experiences because of that, you know.So like that question like you can see the optimism in me, you know, like
I don't even think about stuff like that.Like I don't even think about like
there are no sacrifice.
Yeah.Like there's no sacrifices.Everything is for a reason and that's why I'm here and I'm grateful to be here obviously.But the friends that you lost during the process, the sleep that you lost or like the maniac that you became, all of that or would you do it again?
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
So there's no sacrifices.Love it.
There's no sacrif Yeah.It's all it was all worth it.No regret.
And it's going to be worth it.Pressure makes diamonds.Like just you just kind of have to keep going, you know?Like everything is worth it if you believe it's going to be worth it.But you have to believe.
Yeah.Law of attraction.
Yeah.I I believe in all of those things as well.Yeah.
The episode wraps up with thanks from both sides and a final call for viewer feedback. The outro closes the conversation and reinforces the show's theme of continuous improvement.
Well, thank you so much.It was a pleasure having you.Thank you so much for doing this
and bearing with us for a couple of hours.
That was great.Thanks, man.
Thank you.Thank you for watching this episode till the end.We would love to know what you liked or disliked about this episode and which guests you would like to see on the show.Let us know in the comments.Your feedback help us improve and make every episode a little better.I'll see you next time.Until then, keep figuring out.